Ep 98 - Final Fantasy 1: An Enduring Saga (Part 2)

On Part 1 of our two part exploration of the original Final Fantasy, we talked intros and first impressions. For Part 2, we start by talking about the game's many inspirations and the amazing moments that blew our 10 year old minds. A mixed bag of topics that somehow ties into the overall theme of this series: Final Fantasy 1 is a classic for a reason, warts and all. Oh, and we talk about Warmech. Lots and lots of Warmech. 

STARRING (all handles from Twitter)

Barry Carenza of Premium Edition Games (@HawkHellfire)
@Dancarnate
Greg Sewart of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 (@sewart) 
John Trenbeath (@crazyjohnt)
Julian Titus (@julian_titus) of The Stage Select Podcast (@StageSelectPod)
Matt of the Backlog Busters (@skinnymattk)
Mike aka MageORage on Twitch and YouTube (@mageorage)
Nate McLellan (@natedoescomedy79 on TikTok)
Ryan aka @GameswCoffee

SONG COVERS

Final Fantasy: Main Theme (String Quartet) - ft. Israfelcello by Patti Rudisill - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii3IEp4UiL8

Let The Battle Begin | Final Fantasy VII | MES by Mariachi Entertainment System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRvwScxf1Kw

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Transcript

0:17

Last week we spent 90 minutes unpacking a wide variety of remembrances and recollections from the world of Final Fantasy 1. This week in part 2 we keep the train rolling by discussing the game's various media, early inspirations and gush lovingly about the moments that stuck with us forever. We have a long one ahead so let's load that stay file, stock up on potions and pray we see neither hide nor hair of… warmek as we embark upon episode 98, Final Fantasy 1, and Enduring Saga Part 2. Before we get into the world of big moments and memorable situations, I thought it would be good to touch on some of Final Fantasy's earliest inspirations. While it may have been the first RPG most people I knew were into, it certainly wasn't the new kid on the block. To talk about the early precursors of Final Fantasy is Dan Carnet, followed up by John aka BeatCrones on Twitter slash X. Coming from Dragon Warrior, it was... you felt like it was this, it sounded like a grander adventure, just felt bigger, at least from what I'm hearing in your story so far. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say, I think the biggest difference between the two for me is really that there was a story, you know, in more of a direction of what you were trying to do, although there were things that you had to do in Dragon Warrior, like, you know, get the harp and... you know, do all the things. Final Fantasy had a story like, hey, the earth is rotting, you know, and you work your way towards the earth cave. And then you kind of had more of a direction of like point A to point B. It was more of a linear storytelling. And whereas Dragon Warrior, I felt like I was like, OK, I'm just going to walk around randomly and talk to every NPC because I don't know what I'm doing. I had fun with it, but I really didn't know, you know, mind you, I was pretty young. I mean, I was born in 83 and I think I was playing them, you know, probably what like 92, 93, somewhere around there, I would say. So if I had to try to put a date on it, you know, so I'm like nine years old, eight years old or whatever playing these RPGs. And so it just... it made more sense. Like, I felt like I was accomplishing more, even if I technically wasn't. Final Fantasy one you came from that Ultima game. What set it apart from what you had played before? Because it was similar, but definitely you mentioned something in the battle system. You didn't have to be all up on them to to attack. But it also is a little probably a little more restrictive than an Ultima. What what about it caught you that was like different that like God's hooks at you? This is going to be kind of weird. It was more complex and simple all at the same time, because with Ultima. for a lot of your actions, kind of like in Dragon Warrior. If you want to go up and down the stairs, you got to hit the stair command in the first Dragon Warrior. If you want to open the door, you've got to open the door. You just don't go through things like you do in Final Fantasy. You just walk through the door like you would. Yes, my brain sends a command to my hand to open the door, but it's not like it's a chore. It's not like a real big choice. Or if you accidentally hit stairs instead of door, you know, you're not just going to stand there and go, I don't know what to do now. It seemed, you know, every location just seemed like its own. Like with Ultima, granted, you know, a lot of the towns have like similar music and whatever. And a lot of the dungeons have similar, like in Ultima, all the dungeons have the same music. Whereas in Final Fantasy, there are repeats of songs, but... it's you most things usually have their own unique soundtrack and I really enjoyed the fact that there was that much music in the game and still do I mean that's one of those soundtracks I'll just throw on and you know drive or you know I'm doing stuff around the house and it's like well you know I'll listen to my Final Fantasy music today and why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't you right? Yeah yeah it's it's awesome. The other thing graphically even though it's Final Fantasy is kind of simple by today's standards. At the time, it was graphically impressive. And that was the other thing, is that Ultima was pretty simple with most of its graphics. Like some of the bigger enemies you fight kind of later in the game look cool, but overall things are much simpler than what came in Final Fantasy. So knowing the fact that Ultima was a huge influence on Final Fantasy, I feel like it's one of those instances of, here's my inspiration, but I'm going to do it better. Right. Now, I've never played the computer games to really know how that compares to what was on the NES. So that's my only comparison. But just knowing that format that's on the NES and seeing what inspired later things, I can see where they go. OK, this is cool. This is cool. Let's lose this. Because one of the other things with ultimate 2 is like in the dungeons it goes kind of like in fantasy star where you're in a first -person perspective Except it doesn't move that smoothly like in fantasy star. It's very choppy each step is like its own screen which kind of works but You know at the time I didn't know any better. So it was cool And you can see the enemies Yeah, and on the on the overworld screen you can see where the enemies are so you can avoid them in Ultima so that's kind of nice. Oh, that's cool. But it's because the battle systems are so much more streamlined in Final Fantasy that alone makes it better because you can get in and out of fights pretty quickly instead of having to march your guys up and down the battlefield and like, okay, I'm just gonna wait five minutes before I can even hit a guy. No, if I want to hit a guy, I want to hit him right now. Right now, right this minute. Let's not wait for this. This may sound silly when you first hear the topic, but please hang with me on this one. Back in my day, games had these things called manuals. These paper mini magazines that taught you how to play the game and in the case of Final Fantasy, lead you by the hand through it. Remember, the year was 1990. and Western gamers needed their RPGs kinda spoon fed to them. Or at least that's what the kind people at Nintendo of America thought. To talk about the game's pack -in manual and the various guides, our comedian Nate McClellan, followed by Matt of the Backlog Busters, and finally Greg Seward of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 series of videos. I, uh, yeah, I definitely, um, no, I had... the power Nintendo powers. So I had a player's guide at my side for the first Final Fantasy game or else I would have never and the actual manual of first the first Final Fantasy, I believe takes you all the way through the Marsh Cave. Like it takes like the manual actually walks you through the first third of the game. I don't think you get the airship of it, but you definitely definitely get through I think for the first boss. Definitely jumping. That's crazy, because jumping back to Final Fantasy VII, another thing that drew me in was the... I love instruction manuals. I'm sure you're the same way. I used to read them on the way home. I'd go to the bathroom. I would take them in there as reading material. I'd want to know everything about this game. And that was kind of cool seeing Final Fantasy VII in the instruction manual. Yeah, they had a little walkthrough to get you through the first reactor, up through... get you through the scorpion boss, I think. And then it would just like end or, you know, it'd be like, oh, hey, buy the strategy guide if you want more, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, that's that's cool that they had it like way back then too, you know? Well, because actually I'm looking at the manual right now and the manual for the original Final Fantasy was 80 pages long. Wow. It's an 80 page manual and it takes you up into I didn't want to say this because I thought it would sound stupid. I guess I'm not. It takes you up to the class change. It takes you all the way up to deliver the tail to bat Bahamut and get your class change. That's how far that's half the game. That's like I think Tiamat is the last one, right? That's it. It's because well, no, because then you have to because then you're you have Kraken and Tiamat to do those three because they are they're in the continent above where you start. So you would you would you get the airship? I told you how to get the airship. because you get the airship, but that's how you can get to those different little islands to do the class change. Yeah, it's crazy. And I'm looking through it. I'm like, this is literally a walkthrough. And again, I had the power, Nintendo Power, and had the actual strategy guide. So I had, which came for free. It was one of the, it just came, just showed up one day. Final Fantasy strategy guide. Hear how to beat the, yeah. Back in those days, Nintendo Power was a bi -monthly magazine. And on the off, on the off, months for in the thing in 1990 they sent strategy guides so it's in a Mario 3 strategy guide they had a Ninja Gaiden strategy Ninja Gaiden 2 Final Fantasy and like one other that I don't remember off the top of my head they gotta bring those back we can't we can't even get a packing game we can't even get a packing game Just be like, here's how you play Baldur's Gate 3, dummy. I don't want to watch a YouTube video that I'm going to forget as soon as I click off and go to the game. And I go, all right, how do I use Eldritch Blast? This is going to be a frigging book. Yeah, I love it. No, and they were really cool. The artwork was awesome in them. After this call, just look up the Final Fantasy. manual and you'll be you'll be impressed like wow this is actually I'm gonna read it to my kids for bedtime to do your unicorn like Listen I'm sorry the pigeon the pigeon goes to school is getting retired. We're not watching that now. We're reading We're reading how to get the rat's tail in the marsh cave or whatever else and how to find a toast Fantastic. This is the Northwest Castle got lucky is if you own the game because you know it in the manual you got the chart with the monsters and the characters and stuff if you're a rent it you're you're really trying to figure things out how do you can't do it I don't I don't know how you do it and the manual of the game came with a very extensive manual that basically takes you through the first I want to say maybe one -third of the game that's up to the first elemental isn't it it's past the first elemental I think I think it's up I think it's up to the point where you upgrade your character. Oh, wow. You do the rat's tail and see Bahama. And I think it takes it that far. I'll find a PDF to confirm. But I remember you gave you the world map and on the backside it had the monster chart. I guess. Yeah. Yep. The full map. Yep. Did you beat it as a kid or was it later later on when you did so? Yes. But like. Like probably two, three years. Like once I was, cause I came out what night? Please, I'm bad with them. Was that, that come out around 90? I'm pretty confident it was like 89 or 90. Yeah, same here. Yeah. I was, you know, I was eight or nine when I was nine or 10, but I, I didn't beat it till I was 13, probably 12 or 13. Once I actually could understand everything that was really going on. I know the, the player's guide for Nintendo power. Remember when Nintendo for Nintendo power, it was a bi -monthly magazine. Yep. And when they started going monthly, I believe they released four players guides. There was a Ninja Gaiden to Mario three, one other I can't remember. And then Final Fantasy. And they released those on the alternating months. I'm 90 % that's accurate because again, they're trying to go to a monthly magazine. So I remember getting the Final Fantasy. I still have it. I said somewhere the final fantasy guide from Nintendo Power. Oh, wow. Still hanging out someplace. Didn't just have the cover with the chest on it and the orb. No, it had like a no, it had like a wizard on it. Now I'm going to look this up. Yeah. So the the cover for the player's guide had a yes. Yeah, you're right. It had all the characters coming out of a giant treasure chest. Yes. Oh, wow. Yes. I remember seeing the cover, but I don't remember the manual. I remember seeing it. Wow. Yes, the Nintendo Power strategy guide. Yes. Wow. I'm surprised. I'll give myself a dollar for figuring that one out. Well done. Well done. Yeah, totally. But yeah, man, that was that was like I still have that somewhere rattling around in my mom's basement somewhere probably. That's interesting. That's really cool that it was a solitary experience for you. Me personally, I had, and I'll tell this story a number of times probably on this series, I had a friend, actually I was in second grade I want to say, yeah probably second grade, and I had Final Fantasy and I was never a well -liked kid. I really wasn't. I was a weird, weird kid. No, it's fine. It's fine. I see shades of myself and my son. And I'm like, oh boy, you're going to have a tough time, dude. You're a weirdo too. But I love it. I'd rather be weird than boring. So that works for me. Anyway, so I was able to befriend one of the track star, like the popular kid, because he played Final Fantasy as well. So I'm like, oh dude, if you go outside Crescent City and you walk around in this circle, you'll find all these ogres. You can really level pretty fast if you - I remember that hallway. Yeah, all these different areas that be like, oh, if you go here, you can level and then you drop by towns, you can refill. And so it was a little communal. If you kind of found pockets, at least for me, like, oh, you're into this because it was different than Zelda or Mario. Everyone was into Zelda Mario. But it was a certain flavor of person that was. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think I think a lot of us who were role playing game fans growing up and especially if we were surrounded by friends who got into them even in the 16 bit era. don't really realize how niche they still were all the way up in the PlayStation. Pre -Final Fantasy VII, for as popular as RPGs were, especially on the Super Nintendo, I don't know that they were as mainstream as a lot of us fans considered them to be. Yeah, especially early on, it was definitely more of a niche thing. We'll probably talk about maybe two and three. Some of those obviously really hidden ones that are basically hit or miss, I think. But especially the first one, And Nintendo really pushed it, because I also remember getting a free players guide, a full players guide from Nintendo Power. And I used that thing to death to navigate Final Fantasy, the first one. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There's no way. I mean, and I play it recently and I'm even thinking about it as a modern gamer like, wow, how did anyone figure these things out on their own without the players guide? That's what I used. Well, I think it's still challenging. It's funny because we talked about it right at the beginning here too, where the game came with a guide in the, I think it was in the manual. And you know, you think about nowadays, and even back then, Sega got raked over the coals over, including a guide with Phantasy Star 2. But I think a lot of us have forgotten how normal it was to get at least some sort of startup guide with a role playing game back in the 80s and 90s. Like that was just, that was just a thing that happened. I mean, the biggest example of that is EarthBound, right? You got that giant guide in the big box, you know? And with EarthBound, I just spent a month and a half just dissecting EarthBound. I did not see that coming. And it's interesting, it's a very similar thing that those who marketed the game didn't really trust American or North American gamers to really get it like they would with Japanese. I'm curious why too. I wonder if it's something cultural or if... I've always wondered why that's the case. I think it is, you know, rightly or wrongly. I mean, how would how would they know for sure? But I've always been very appreciative of it because I feel like it's set if you because back then we all read the manuals before we played our games. It's not like today. You know, you just jump in now. Plus, plus games are built to be played that way. But I know everyone that I knew and myself included, if you had a manual, you read the manual. And these games were so much different than anything that most of us have been exposed to, especially the younger group, that it was great for them to set the tone early on. So it's like, you know, you sort of, it's all about setting expectations. And I felt like I knew what I was getting into with these games. Nintendo Power went a long way to helping with that too, with their coverage of Final Fantasy and of Dragon Warrior. So I wasn't immediately disappointed when I stepped out into the world and got attacked by two. orcs and died. It's like, oh, that's what's supposed to happen. So let's sort this out. Maybe I won't wander so far afield here. There sure were a lot of nice weapons in that shop that I don't have enough gold for. Maybe I should hang around by the city gates and build up my purse a little bit so I can go buy some nicer weapons. Next up, Barry Karenza of Premium Edition Games continues the conversation, followed by the return of Dan Karnett. Yeah, so Final Fantasy 1, the first one you explored it, you had the manual and all that good stuff. What about Final Fantasy 1? Because you said, and before you played Final Fantasy 1, you were mainly like, text adventures on an Atari. Yeah, text adventures. Got along with your first... Or like the first, there was a first person adventures on the Atari. Like the XC where it was like, what direction do you want to go? Type W for West and for North. You know, look around, pick up. And stuff like Maniac Mansion, you know, like the point and click adventures. I had done all those. But I mean, I... didn't know what I was getting into with Final Fantasy. It was the box, you know, with the globe with the four warriors, you know, one, the wizard and the warrior, like the very North American box art that's, you know, and like that looked cool. And I was like, what is this? This looks cool. And again, my selection was very small because at this point, you know, Super Nintendo and Genesis were dominating and, you know, and I was like, okay, well, this is what they have. Dad was like, we'll get you a game. So I was like, well, I'm not going to turn this down. So I picked it and I'm very glad I did because, you know, I'm glad to have started this epic franchise at the beginning. It did not at launch, but at least, you know, obviously Final Fantasy, you know, four, you know, well five, I think was even out at this point by the time I started. But, you know, we only had four. also in America but I didn't have a super so the first one I did play was one. You mentioned the box art as being evocative. It is fantastic box art. Oh, absolutely. I can totally see a kid gravitating towards that. I think I gravitated towards it because of Nintendo power, but I could totally see that sticking up on the shelf, you know, full black with that orb and there's a town in the middle, Final Fantasy. I mean, it is a phenomenal piece of artwork. Yeah, that's what, uh, initially, initially, obviously caught my eye. But, you know, I don't know. I mean, I don't want to say I don't know. I know everybody at that time, you know, when you go to Toys R Us, you would run down the video game aisle and that's all you had to judge a game by, you know, was what did the box art look like? And then you you put the pull the little flap upside down and try to like turn your head to read it. to read what the back of the box was and then hope that there was a little sticker that you could get stamped and everything. But yeah, it was it's weird because it's very it's very minimal in its like design, but it's very poignant. No, I think that makes a lot of sense. I think poignant is a really great description for it because it's it just feels and it's actually ties into the main story of Final Fantasy one very, very well. I think. First moments of interactivity in Final Fantasy 1 is picking your party. Without the aforementioned manual, it would have been a crap shoot. Thief or fighter, which mage is best, what does what, etc. But more than classes or abilities, the biggest question was what to name them. And amazingly, many of my guests remember exactly who those initial four warriors were. To talk about this admittedly odd topic slash question is Mike of Major Rage TV, followed by Nate, then Barry, then Julian of the Stage Select Podcast, and then finally another appearance by Dan Carnett. Well, first off, do you remember the names of the party, your original party, which you named them back in the day? They were named after friends, so one was a... badly crammed in Marlow like with all consonants Because you had like five characters Yeah, these four or five yes, it might have just been yeah, you're right five it might have been four yeah, but yeah, that's so good Marlow with no vowels excellent so nice probably a Brian and a Dustin I want to say so just just my best friends at the time. That's awesome I always ask everyone who's played Final Fantasy 1 and most people remember at least a bit. They're always like, oh yeah, yeah, I remember, yeah, it was this. It's just a fun memory, but very cool. So you use your friends. That's great. Speaking of party, I asked this of everybody who's played Final Fantasy 1, no matter what era they did, what did you name your characters? What did you name your characters for Final Fantasy 1? Oh man, I have a book here that I wrote down their names. One moment. And the reason I ask is if when kids played it of its time, they know, even now, 40 years later, they know exactly what they named those characters. It's so insane to me. OK, so the twenty twenty eight did I had a warrior. His name was Fred. All right. The warrior. OK, read the warrior. I had a thief. His name was theft because on the NES you only got four characters. Yes, yes, you do. It's great. And then I had a black mage. Their name mage mage. And then I had a white mage. Their name. Heel. Because I was like, I don't know. I was I was worried that like, which, you know, because I named those on the NES version. And then when I switched over, I was like, I'm just going to keep that party comp, keep the names, you know. Nice. But I was worried. I was like, this is an NES game. Like, I don't want to get confused as to who is going, you know, like I don't want to be like so funny. Yeah. So but then it turns out that now they have sprite work. And it looks great. I don't know what I was worried about. I didn't need to name them by their role, just as a placeholder, just to keep my own sanity. Their role is pretty clear. Oh, that's very funny. That's really good. Yeah, it's been I named my kids that way, too. You know, I named like infant and then every every couple of months, every couple of years we have to go back to the courthouse and I go, all right, we need to update. Toddler. Todd. And yeah. Child. Oh, that's really good. That's very funny. I don't have paperwork involved with that. I don't know, man. I mean, it's a little inefficient, but you know, whatever. It's fine. Dude, you gotta do it. I love that. I need to ask, and I'm curious if you remember, do you remember what you named your party? The names of your characters in Final Fantasy? I remember that the first character was my name, minus an R, because I think it was only four characters. And then I don't remember who I remember. I have other friends and stuff, because that's actually how I played the first. six Final Fantasies was I actually changed the name of the characters. Because that's just what you did. Like I didn't think of anything else of it until afterwards, you know, when I was like, oh, you know, like these characters have names and backstories and all this stuff. Now here I am changing it. You know, like when I, you know, online I go by Hawk. As my handle how cal fire is my Twitter and stuff. It's just my call sign in all video games So when I played like Final Fantasy 6 for example, which we'll get to Lock was Hawk like that was the first male So that's what I named that I named Tara after my girlfriend at the time Because that's right. Yeah, that's funny. I love it I'm just curious is a lot of people remember some dumb, but some moves a lot people like oh, I know exactly I know exactly what I named them. I'm like Conjuring this weird memory bubble in their brain in people's brains or attempting to at least right? I love that AAAA you Yeah, and also quick question, what was your who was your party who did you pick at the beginning? You know, I think at the beginning I probably would have just gone with whatever the default ones were because I had no idea what I was doing and I think the default is like Warrior monk white mage black mage Usually when I'm playing the game I go for Either two warriors or two monks because I love you know in those first couple games I the faster you get, the more hits you do. So it's just really satisfying as a monk to be doing like, oh, you just hit them 24 times. That's really nice. Also, because I've never been much of a magic guy, just in general. I love melee, I love swords. I don't know if you remember the old 8-bit theater comics where the warrior's just like, I like swords. I like swords, yeah. And that is me, right? When I got to play in a pen and paper RPG for the first time, I just went. I'm a warrior, right? I just want to I just want to swing this huge sword around. I'm not compensating for anything. I just like swords. So I but I but then, you know, once I got into Final Fantasy 11 where, you know, that game was very much about like having a balanced party, I started to be like, OK, I kind of get the the idea of having a healer and a, you know, like magic damage dealing person in your party. Yeah. I'll put them in here. I was always a man. I was always been a magic guy. I love magic. Yep. And the opposite. I always enjoyed magic of much more than sword play and all that. I was always the standard fighter, white, white mage, black mage. And I always played as the, uh, I don't think I think it was the black belt in final fantasy. Now the monk, but the black belt that was always my guy. He was pretty, wasn't great when you got to the middle of the game right before he becomes the, uh, Ninja I think or I forget what the class change is. He turns into a master. Master, that's it. Yeah. Right before he becomes a master, he is useless. He is utterly, he's got some silver nunchucks and no armor and he's just getting wrecked. But then when he, but then when he upgrades, you throw all that stuff off and he is amazing. That's one of those things about Final Fantasy 1. And I think about a lot of games of that era where it's just like. There's no way that you would know this, but like you're not supposed to have them equipped with a weapon from like level five on. Right. Yeah. Like it actively like hinders their damage. And it's like once I learned that I was like, why? Why? Like then why even have them equip a weapon or why? Why? Yeah, it's there's some weird stuff in there. Are you tricking me? No, I will say, Bill, in honor of a mutual friend of ours on this most recent Pixel Remastered playthrough. I selected an all red mage team that were named the well red and mage. Nice! Well done! Very nice! Very cool! I love that! Nicely done! Here's the question. So before we continue, I have I've been asking everybody this who's played the original. What was your loadout, your original Final Fantasy OG loadout character build and what were their names? We all had names. There was it had to have. Oh, oh, I remember mine. I'm sure you do. We have it. Everyone does. No. Let's see. Yeah. What were they? OK, so I'll name the other classes first. So it was the fighter thief, black mage, white mage, the. the standard party, but I drew a blank and I couldn't think of a name. So I was listening to, you remember Jock Jams? That CD? Of course, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I was listening to that. And so my team's name in order was Hi Ho Let's Go. That was it. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. And you only have four characters per name to work with. So that's... Yeah, so it actually fits. That's perfect. That fits great. That's really good. I love that. I absolutely love that story. I yeah, mine. I was mine was very boring. I was I was always the fighter. So it was Bill was the fighter and my brother Bob or Bobby. So we just we Bob was I always use. I think no, I always did monk. I always did monk who then turned into black belt. He would be the monk turn black belt. And then my sister Lynn would be a white mage. And then. my best friend Joey would be the black mage or some rotation, maybe a pet name sometimes or some other name. But the main three was myself and my siblings. And then the fourth would rotate sometimes. I love that though. Hi ho, let's go. That's fantastic. Well, yeah, that was mostly because I just couldn't think of three other people that I'd be on a journey with at that time in my life. Time to thank my glorious, wonderful, and always debonair patrons of a gamer looks at 40 podcast. Starting off with Terry Kinair, followed by Greg Seward of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 series of videos, Games with Coffee, The Let's Play Princess, BT Gobbles, Tim Knowles, Julian of the Stage Select Podcast, Seth Sergel of the All N Podcast, and the one and only beautiful and... Father of the Millennium, Pete Harney. I try every week, I'm trying to one -up it. Every week. If you want to join these amazing human beings, please go to GamerLooksOfFornie on Patreon, take a look at the tiers, and for a mere three smackaroos, you can get early access to episodes, access to a special section on my Discord, and other goodies. And for five bucks, two additional podcasts a month. Oh boy, oh boy, what a deal it is, what a deal it is. Thank you so much for your consideration. Let's get back to the episode. Once we got past the character select, we were awash in moment after amazing moment, the first of which being an incredible opening. And we mentioned this a bit on the first episode, but now we're really going to dive into the minutia of what makes the opening hour and change of Final Fantasy so dang special. Greg Stewart returns to talk about those memorable first steps in the original Final Fantasy. followed by Matt, Julian, then Nate, and then one more segment from Dan Karnet. But I remember turning it on for the first time and being so blown away even from simple things like Final Fantasy did what we would call a cold open, which you didn't see in video games back in the late 80s, early 90s. So I mean, when you turn that game on, you don't see a title screen. You see the blue screen, the famous Final Fantasy music starts up, and the backstory appears on the screen. And I think you do finally see a title screen, but it even goes so far as you doing a quest before you get the proper title screen, the proper opening titles for the game, which I thought was incredible. It was so cinematic. And again, it wasn't something that I was used to seeing. And I think it was around the same time that Ninja Gaiden came out around here too. So, you know. We were starting to see that stuff more and more in video games, but it was just something about that really spoke to me. And I think it was sort of being exposed to the greater storytelling potential in video games that we as especially console gamers hadn't really seen up to that point. Yeah, no, that's really cool. And I totally agree. My Final Fantasy, I guess, was probably the same thing. It was probably Nintendo Power. And I'm sure I got it as a Christmas gift at some point. And I'd never played an RPG before. So I was not a... I played Dragon Warrior at a friend's house and I just didn't understand it. It was very obtuse to me and all the thys and thou's and ye's. I don't think I quite got it. But then Final Fantasy, you're right, it hits you in the face with that splash screen. It's almost startling. Boom. Yeah. No game was doing that. You know, boot up with a menu with a developer name and a title screen. And you're right. That title screen of Final Fantasy happens after you defeat Garland for the first time and you rescue the princess. And then you cross over the bridge to the larger world. And it is it's incredible. I remember that distinctly the first time seeing that. seen that screen and knowing, okay, it's adventure time. Like it's time for an adventure. Like here we go. Yeah, and it felt, I mean, especially if you hadn't really played much of Dragon Warrior before, even that opening section, I mean, you look at it now and it's kind of comically small, right? Like it's not very epic in any way. But back then when you weren't used to this kind of thing, it did feel kind of big. And then when you realize that what you've... been playing so far is just a tiny sliver of this big world you're about to be set free in. Yeah, it really hits, right? It really hits you. It's like, wow, you crossed that bridge, and boy, now what do I do? Like, I can go anywhere. You can't really, but you feel like you can. And the world is getting more dangerous around you as you go, and you just sort of, I don't know, it's that. sense of wonderment and discovery. It was, I feel like it was the first time I really felt that. And I think a lot of it too for me had to do with when I played Dragon Warrior, I played it with a friend. It was his game and we were playing it together. So we were kind of experiencing it together, but with this game I was playing it by myself. So the sense of discovery was a much more intimate thing I think. What kind of impression did it leave on you? You know, playing that, again, you said that you were playing along with your future brother -in -law, and you're watching what he was doing, kind of, what kind of impression did that leave? See, I mean, I had already played and beat Dragon Warrior at this point, which, you know, Dragon Warrior, you have one character, and you're going through your story. This was the first one where I remember having, you know, you have a party, but the whole thing, it's like, all right, you go out, you get... The first assignment to save the princess, you know, please tell me it's... I'm trying to get through all of this. Garland, right? You had to go to the little thing and defeat Garland, who was like the elf. Yep, Garland. Or whatever. And then once you cross the... go to cross the bridge to go to the next continent, you get that nice cutscene. It's like, all right, here's the game. Now we go. Yeah. I'm not going to give you anyone spoilers for some reason for a game that old if you don't know the deal with Garland. I'm just gonna leave it there. And you can spoil this game is this show's a hundred percent spoiler. I mean the whole game that I'm just gonna say the whole game is a time loop. You're just gonna learn the game's a time loop. I mean they did kind of do the spinoff game. They kind of give that away. What was the name of that one? It was the one they did. You remember it was a little more of a cheese mo if you will with the character. I don't remember that now. I can't remember the name of the game that they put out last year. Anyhow, sides are right. That's fine. Yeah, so, so yeah, I agree with you. I think walking across the bridge, you know, after defeating Garland, walking across the bridge, you get the proper title screen, which is rare for games at the time. Like, you know, Final Fantasy, press start. That doesn't happen in Final Fantasy 1. You get that weird blue crawl with the music. Yep. Pick a character, you don't know who they are, give them a name, okay, and away you go. There's literally no onboarding whatsoever. So can you put yourself back in that place when you play it for the first time? You're exploring the castle, you meet classic hero story, the save the princess. I think she's asleep and you got to wake her. Can you remember how it felt in that moment, like traversing the world and experiencing that for the first time? Well, thankfully, you know, as part of my like voracious consumption of everything video game related that wasn't actually playing video games. I had a subscription to Nintendo Power, Bill, so that's how I was helping my way through Final Fantasy 1. Oh yeah, I had that player's guide as well. It's the only reason I beat the game. Yeah, so I think without that I would have been completely clueless. Because I don't even remember, I think it's like the instruction manual, because the original instruction manual does have a kind of player's guide in there, but I wouldn't have had that when I rented it. So I want to say that in there it does say like talk to everybody. But, you know, I would not have really been cognizant of that at the time. So it was very much like the Nintendo power thing. And then, you know, I just don't I don't think I was grokking the concept of like leveling up, which is, you know, definitely why. Like I didn't I made it to the boss of the March cave, but I just couldn't finish it. And and yeah, like I think it was very much like a. I think I was just kind of enjoying the whole vibe of it and not really understanding it very well. the first one, you know, we've kind of basically stated that, yeah, it's important more than it's probably fun, but I think the big moments really define, define Final Fantasy Rue there. One of the biggest moments I remember is once you defeat Garland in that castle and they build the bridge. And then it's only until you cross that bridge until it is when you get the title of the game, you get the soundtrack, you get that nice little Picture image of your character on silhouette against I think it was an ocean view. I personally that sunk me into the game. That's when I was like, oh my gosh, I love this right because it had that big moment. Do you remember how you felt when you first hit that? Not particularly. I'm sure I would have thought it was cool because I definitely would not have seen anything like that at the time. And again, like the music, right? Like just, there is something about that that was like extremely compelling. And it's really been in analyzing the game, like as an adult that I've really been able to appreciate it for what it is and what it was. And I do think that some of the bigger moments that come towards the end, like I've talked about them all the time on There's Without Pants, but my favorite podcast is No One Can Know About This. a podcast where we play every Final Fantasy game. And even though their experience playing Final Fantasy one was miserable, when they got the piece, they talked to somebody who said like, you know, we had five warriors that went out to try to stop, you know, chaos, but we know that they've been cursed and live as bats. And then when they went back to the original dungeon and could talk to the bats like, they got goosebumps, right? Like that is a really cool piece of storytelling where it's like, whoa, like that came out of nowhere. I can't believe that, like all of this actually ends up tracking. Like, you know, even back then they were onto something. Another moment that stands out that I just thought of and I love, I love Stranger of Paradise because they included it. But when you cross the bridge and it cuts to that cut scene and the theme plays and you see the castle in the distance, like that is so cool. Like, yeah. That that cemented me as a fan. I was playing it and like, OK, cool, this is neat because the Final Fantasy, the original NES Final Fantasy is a pure cold open. It just opens with the classic music and just some scrolling text of like the setup, you know, four warriors should appear mysteriously with orbs in their hands that they're bringing back the light. And then you just you're in the town. You pick your pick your characters. What's your town? And away away you go. So having that be like the official. Oh, it's very cinematic in how it's almost the original. It's like a. the intro to a movie, like the prelude to a movie, and then you have the title screen, and then you have the rest of the movie. It was very, very unique. So any other big moments from Final Fantasy that you remember from the original one, just thinking back on it and recollecting? I remember the moment where you crossed a bridge. Oh, yeah. It stood out to me as something big. And I'm curious what your take on it was, because it's very different from any NES game I had played up until that point. You know what's funny is as a kid, that scene did nothing for me. I hate to say it. Interesting. It was, you know, it was like, OK, why are you recapping what just happened over like, you know, not that long of a time as I grew up that I live for that scene and that that theme is just so strong. Like the fact that they they played it at the Tokyo Olympics like this is. Oh, man, dude. Dude, I was like I was like I. I was like shedding a tear watching the Olympics. My wife's asking me like, what's going on? And I was like, you don't understand. I'm having a moment here. I'm having a moment. I just, I love this competition. I'm swept away in the majesty of the Olympics. I love that. Yeah. I just remember thinking this is an adventure and not, not for nothing. Pixel remasters. I love you. I think you did a great job. Boy, oh boy, does that beginning go on and on in the pixel remasters with the scrolling text. Yeah. Oh, boy. Wow. Just saying it's a big moment, but boy, oh boy. OK. Yeah. But the big the big trade off, though, is you get what I coined as the Final Fantasy Mariachi band for because like that all I can all I can hear. is trumpets like all the time. And so I'm just thinking like, man, there would be a there would be an awesome mariachi band just to be playing a bunch of Final Fantasy tunes. Imagine that there has to be in the world. This is a big enough world, this big enough Internet where there has to be mariachi versions of Final Fantasy music. I'm going to go on a quest now, sir. My own personal quest and find find Final Fantasy Mariachi music because that does sound amazing. There is the mariachi entertainment system. They are a mariachi band that does video game covers. I've never heard of this and I'm very happy this exists. Oh yeah, they're amazing. That's awesome, man. They always start by taking a shot of tequila. Okay, imagine this. You're fighting for your life in the next to last dungeon of a brutal video game. No save points, no sparkly floor icons to pitch a tent upon, nothing. Just floor after floor of merciless grinding, exploration, and random encounters. You approach the final hallway towards what has to be the boss. jealously clinging to every ounce of magic in your arsenal when... You're faced with a nearly impossible adversary. To talk about this digital horror is Julian followed by Matt and concluding with John. Kind of cheated me out of the platinum though because you have to fight and defeat Wormac and I don't think that I can beat Wormac with a red major party. I was gonna say, I was gonna say that one of the biggest bad words you can say in Final Fantasy 1 is Wormac. Have you ever taken him down? I have never even seen him. I've seen him in the real game. And it was horrifying because he destroyed me in five seconds. And then, of course, in Final Fantasy again, because everything's hard, you can't save within, there's no save points within a dungeon. So you get to do all that again. I beat Final Fantasy as a kid. I actually was able to complete it. But boy, oh boy, was there a lot of friction. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Warman. Oof. I applaud anybody who's been able to do it, especially if you did it when you were a kid because... Who didn't do it as a kid. I tried. I faced off against him a few times. I was never able to. So the only way I got past that long bridge to Tamat was just not running into him. Yeah. And that's the only way I was able to finally progress and get through it. Which is pretty easy to do. Like I was I was on the hunt for him on this pixel remaster. And I I spent like a good three hours straight and never never encountered him. And that was that was on like... Like I had the speed, like my character's running really quickly and everything and yeah, just he never showed up and I was like, okay. And then there's another enemy that's just as rare in the final dungeon to fill out the bestiary for the platinum. I was like, yeah, we'll just circle back to this later. At some point, that's fine. Yeah, maybe. I'll get and one final little thing off Final Fantasy I'm just gonna say one word one name and See if how you react Warmech. Oh My god, yeah, okay The palpable pause the palpable pause in fear that was just in your voice at that moment. Oh Did you ever did you ever beat Warmech? I don't even remember anymore Yeah, I've bought yeah, I've blocked that out bill I don't I've been saying I never beat I don't think I I don't think I did I Cuz that's something you'd remember. It's like the first time you beat Mike Tyson and punch out you would remember that No, I faced off him a couple of times and got absolutely annihilated Yeah, I knew I would because the players guy basically said if you run into this guy start away Just we can't you just you lost just reset and it's a it's in the Tiamat's dungeon, it's the Sky Castle. Oh wow, that's wow. Yeah, yeah, I never beat him. And it's that long bridge to Tiamat. Yep, yep, yep, yep. And you have a 1 in 64 chance, I think. Yep, yep. Oh, boy. Not fun. Not fun. Now it's all coming back. I'm having nightmares. I was gonna say, did you ever take on War Mech? Oh yeah. Yeah, like when you reach a certain point, it was like, oh, I'm gonna go mech hunting. I'm gonna go find as many of these things as I can and build my party up even more than I already have. You were victorious then against War Mech. Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Oh wow, okay, wow. War Mech, you walked into that confidently. I ask people that question and they cower in fear. They're like, oh no, I can't. I can't talk about War Mech. I can't talk about War Mech. Now, when you originally go to fight Tiamat, it is nerve wracking because I know I'm not ready to fight that yet. But by the time I've done a bunch of grinding and am ready to basically go fight chaos, I'm ready to fight Warmech. And that was always one of the things I like to do in those early games is let's see how far I can kind of. Like I shouldn't be here yet, but I'm gonna be here anyway and see how long it takes me to die. Maybe I can win a couple of battles early on, but I'll save the game. It'll be fine. Yeah, it's fine. Now, I think that's really fun. Yeah, so you were the type of person that would really grind it out. Like you were a power level, get strong, push through? It depends. Okay. At certain times I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna grind a little bit. Other times it was like, I don't want to do that. I'm going to see if I can get through this anyway. And I've played the game a lot. Like I've seen some people say, oh yeah, I played Final Fantasy like once or twice and that was it. Like I couldn't put that much more time into it. But it's like, yeah, but you're the same guy that'll play Skyrim for 8 ,000 hours. So what's the difference between doing a couple of playthroughs of Final Fantasy with different parties? It's all about what you're into man. It's all about what you're into. Yeah, no I've never I've never like tried any of like the white mage challenges or like a single character challenge That's a bit too much for me. I don't have the patience for that. But you know, I do like to change up character combinations sometimes like, you know, let's do three warriors and a white mage or You know two red mages and two black mages or something but Nothing nothing real crazy ever But, you know, it just depends on the playthrough. Sometimes, like I said, I'll grind a bunch, or I'll just push through, and then at the very end it's like, yeah, I gotta grind a lot now, and then fight War Mech, and then go fight Chaos. In Dragon Warrior, we plotted through fields, swamps, forests and caves. In Final Fantasy, we took to the sky. The talk about the first appearance and sense of freedom with the now iconic airship is Julian followed by Barry and concluding with Nate. Yeah, Final Fantasy 1 though, one of the big things I remember, another big moment was the airship. The airship being again, a staple of the entire series. I don't know if every game features an airship, but boy oh boy that first one was extremely memorable. technically eight doesn't because you get a flying school and a spaceship. So you don't get like a classic like airship in the normal sense. But I think every other game does. And yeah, and oddly, like a lot of them end up coming from the ground. Like they really like burying airships in those early days and having them rise from, you know, from underneath. I remember distinctly the speed. Because again, remember the original Final Fantasy, you don't run ever. There are no sprint shoes. There's certainly no run button. You got two buttons on the NES controller and you ain't holding start to do it. So you there's no running. The fact you can just zip across this map at six times speed. I was saying like, I mean, that's a little exaggeration, but it's not like that. It's not that far off. It's going real fast. You fly around that screen. Yeah, I. Again, if you didn't play it as a kid, it probably wouldn't hit you as much. But as a kid, I remember distinctly just being blown away and doing nothing but just flying around the map. Yeah, I didn't do anything and there's no enemies. I'm thinking, where's the enemies? There's no enemies. I can just fly around. No encounters. Just fly around. The sense of freedom was unreal with that moment. And I think now having just, you know, being very fresh off of it, like I think it's also a really excellent piece of design. because it's like, okay, you've struggled through this game, right? Like you got a canoe, but you would still get attacked. You got a ship, but you would still be attacked. Then you get the airship and it's like, yeah, it's freedom. You can go, you can whiz around the world as much as you want and you're not gonna get attacked. But at the same time, like all the places that you need to go to from that point in the game, you can't just park your airship right next to it. You still have to park. a decent amount away from whatever your destination is and walk to it. And I think it's because they were like, you're going to still have to be getting stronger. So you can't just ignore this component of of the game. And I think also, again, because there's not much going on in Final Fantasy one, other than the challenge is that part of it is just like, yeah, now you have access to the whole world. Now what? Right. Figure it out. Just find places that you couldn't get to before. and figure it out. You're probably going to do it out of order. Doesn't matter. Figure it out. Right. Maybe you got this rat tail for and you don't know why. And then suddenly you talk to Bahamut and he's like, oh, hey, you got the thing that I wanted. And now, you know, you have. Well, you're not really better because that's that's the thing in Final Fantasy one is that the class changes don't actually make you much better. You get like certain classes get to use magic that couldn't before, but you're not really doing more damage or anything like that. It's kind of a you just look cooler. But hey, you know, like you can totally like sequence break that. And there's a lot of things like that where it's like you'll you might get the key item that you need and then talk to the person that's looking for it. It's like, oh, here you go. I grabbed this. I don't know why, but here you go. You just grab whatever's there. Do you remember any big moments from Final Fantasy I that you can remember just kind of impacting you or hitting you? Again, obviously we talked about that initial title screen when you crossed the bridge. Matoya's Cave was just the music was just something there, all the brooms talking backwards and it was just like, this is so cool. And then of course the prince, the Elven prince and just getting the boat and like, oh, this is so, and the canoe, first you got the canoe and it was like. I can now open up this new levels and of course, you know, seeing Bahamut was great and the class change was like, oh man, like, and then of course, it's about to get in the airship, but the final reward, like it's like, oh yeah, now I can fly anywhere. Let's do this. When you first got the airship in Final Fantasy one, how long did you spend just flying around nonsensically? Too long. Too long. Too long. Exactly. You were like Final Fantasy 1's world was dangerous. You know, you didn't have MP. You had nine Cure 1s and that was it. And you had to go back and rest at an inn. So magic was one of those, do I want to waste one of my turns? Is this really worth it? Can I make it a little farther? And of course, if you had to die, you had to go back to the church and raise and it was a pain in the butt. But just to have that freedom. I think that freedom was like, after this long into the game, thank God. Love it. I love it. I think that's great. And I remember an hour easy. I'm like, oh, I can just go in big circles. It's a world. I'm going around the world, literally. I'm appearing at the bottom of the map after going through the top. And yeah, I remember it was just a magical experience. Once you get the airship, which I remember getting the airship for the first time as a kid like it was yesterday, I just flew around in circles for probably an hour. I just flew around. Like, wait, I can go keep going. I just go in circles and I go literally around the world and I'm back on the other side again. That feeling of freedom, yeah, I just flew around for hours. Yeah. Getting the airship too, like, you know, the in prices increase like the further you get into the game. and it's based on like region. After I got the airship, I was like, I'm just going, I'm flying back to this rinky dink town. I'm healing up for five Gil. You know? Yes. You gotta fly back for. Yep. You have to. You can't, you can't do it. Yeah, you're right. I did the exact same thing. Why spend $500? And I still do it. I still do it in Final Fantasy End games. Why would I spend $500 on the fancy inn where I can go back to the first town and spend five? Like, why would I? It's gonna take me three seconds to get back up there again. It's not a large journey. Over four years ago, the mics from Games My Mom Found in I embarked upon a ludicrous journey to watch every modern Marvel movie in order of release and exhaustively discuss each in podcast form. Who would be foolish enough to follow in our footsteps? The brave lads of absolutely the best podcast, colon a work in progress, that's who. Join host George and Zack as they grind their way through all the MCU's phases, highlighting the best, the worst, and the weirdest moments. All with dry humor, genuine insight, and a flair for the hilarious. As of this recording, their most recent episode is on Iron Man 3. If you know my story of Iron Man 3, you will see that theirs is similar in some ways and very different in others. All in all though, a great conversation. This is a show I am looking forward to every week and I am very confident you will too. Once again, the show is entitled Absolutely the Best Podcast, colon a work in progress. Available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, and anywhere quality words are spoken on the internet. And the moments keep on rolling. Continuing our beat by beat recollection of Final Fantasy is Barry, followed by Greg, the one and only Games with Coffee, followed by yet another sighting of Dan Carnett, and concluding with Mr. Nate McClellan. I also remember very distinctly, and I don't know why this struck me, but the Circle of Sages. You get to, I think it's Crescent City, I think it's called Crescent something, and you go up and there is this circle of 12 sages. and then you start at the top and you talk to each one, they literally just give you the info dump of the entire game, like the four orbs and all that. And I remember just being enthralled by this story, this idea, like all this info, all this lore, and I played it when I was eight. So this was like early, early for me. And I remember being just enthralled by it, eight or nine, I think it was nine. Just that was another moment for me that was really big. Yeah, no, that's - Circle of Sages. I remember the Gravestones where they changed Earth to Link for North America. So, your lies, Link. And I don't know if you might have done it back then, but while I didn't have Nintendo Power, my friend did and the sliding puzzle with the ship. I was going to ask you about that horrible, horrible sliding puzzle. I hated it. I hated that thing. I hated it, but it was like, this is a thing? Oh, we got to do this, you know? I could never do it. There was no way I could. No, no, no patience for it, but I would always try and I believe you couldn't get out of it. Yeah. If I remember correctly, you get like, yeah, you have to like restart the game. I don't think you could get out of it if I missed. I may be mistaken on that, but. But yeah, yeah, the sliding was stupid. It was not good, but it was one of those where it was like, oh my God, this is a secret. It's classified corner and no power. We got to do it. We got to do it. Classified corner, yes, exactly. Counselor's corner. It was classified information in Counselor's corner. Yeah, and Counselor's corner, yes. It was in one of those. Yep, yeah, something, right. I love that. That's really, really good. Exactly, exactly right. And so were there any other, as we're thinking back through the original Final Fantasy, are there any, I don't know, moments that really stick out to you? Obviously the crossing the bridge moment was a big one. For me, the pirates were a big one. All of a sudden, nine pirates fill your screen. And they're easy, but it's overwhelming. Any other moments for you that really stick out in your brain? I mean, the pirates really stand out because, again, it was one of those sort of cinematic moments. I mean, obviously, You were visual. Your brain was doing a lot of the heavy lifting, right? Visualizing what that would be in real life. But it was neat to walk into a town where they were. You didn't see very many people and you just had the pirates hanging out there and and to get their ship. For me, the airship rising out of the ground. Was huge. Rising out of the desert. Flying up to that northern section, like you said, where you see there's like a whole northern continent that you're going to be dealing with. and seeing the, I think it was, was it called the Tower of Babel in the game? I think it was. I don't, it might be. It might be, but seeing that tower, I'm going, what's that? That, you know, that looks cool, but it's something that you're not gonna tackle until much later. And upgrading the characters, when you got the rat tail and you went to and upgraded your characters, which you didn't have to do. I just thought that was really neat. Like it was just, again, something I hadn't really seen in a game before. and added this sort of level of progression that in a game that was all about progression and building up your characters to sort of do this promotion to the, I always called them the adult versions of your characters. And just seeing what those looked like was the other nice thing. It actually made me want to go back and play again because of course you could only play with four characters and even necessarily then they didn't have to be different classes. They could all be the same if you wanted. So it's like. I wonder what the red mage looks like after he's upgraded or I wonder what the black belt looks like after he's got his upgrade. So yeah. Yeah. Do you have any memorable moments from Final Fantasy, the first one? Like, again, this is it. It'll be interesting to hear your perspective because you were older. You were, you know, 14, 15 when you were playing this on the PlayStation. So you had the load times and all that. Do you have any recollections, like strong recollections of big moments for you in that game? Surprisingly, not really. OK, that's fine. I'm trying to think. I'm not going to. I'm trying to think it's something I do remember like going into the water temple at first time that was an interesting experience I never expected because again first time playing it went into this blind didn't I did not expect for there to be this much technology in a fantasy game right of its time but then when you when you look at it in juxtaposition the other Final Fantasy's that came after it's like Oh yeah, okay, I know that makes sense. There's not only just like classic elements of fantasy, magic, monsters, swords, and shields, but there's also the existence of ancient technology, ancient advanced technology. So we got like a submersible that you can use with a special type of oxy -ale water that allows you to breathe underwater, or you can fly to a flying fortress up in the sky, high above the sky. When's the most recent you've played it? Probably about a year. Well, it would be January of 2021 is when I played through it recently or the most recent and I was on the the Pixel remasters. Nice. How did you feel about your experience with Final Fantasy one now as opposed to when you first played it as a kid? It was a lot faster now. Oh, boy, is it? When you know of like the Peninsula of Power and you know, you kind of learned those those tricks along the way. Specific specifically looking at you, Marsh Cave. To me, the Marsh Cave is the end game of Final Fantasy one. And whenever I play that game, if I get past the Marsh Cave, I know I'm going to beat the game. Yeah, that's fair. But but the Marsh Cave itself, if I'm playing on like, you know, the original Ness, I now I'm too old. I have to do the Peninsula of Power. I need to hurry up and get my money so I can buy all the silver stuff and just kind of stomp through it. For those who don't know what is the Peninsula of Power? All right. So the Peninsula of Power. So I think is the town named Provoka. I think it's the yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the second or third one I think you come to, right? Yeah, it's the second town. It's where you get the boat. But instead of taking the boat, if you walk down and then you go to the right some and then up, there's this little peninsula. Now, the way that the game was coded is by 64. I believe it's 64 squares, 64 square increments. And those are broken up. And that's how the game determines what enemies you're going to be fighting. Well, this peninsula overlooks another peninsula just across the water. Well, when they had put the squares down and said what enemies you could potentially be fighting in these different places, that actually overlapped to a higher end, like an end game area. So what can happen is you can get in fights with mobs that are much, much stronger than what you should be fighting. Right. But what you can do is go down to the Elftown by using your acquired boat. And if you have like a black mage, you can get fire too. If you get in a fight with like some frost wolves or there's some trolls, there are several things that are weak against fire specifically, but you can use that and you can one shot a pack of them. And if you can do that, then you're looking at, you know, 30 minutes of grinding the enemies that are your level done within, you know, one fight potentially. That's that's that is fantastic. That's early on in the game. So that's a real big boost to your to your early adventures. I mean, yeah. Oh, absolutely. I I don't remember exactly off the top of my head, but I want to say that, you know, you would get on average like a hundred and. 20 experience or something like that for each for each fight. But it's peninsula. The peninsula power would actually get you like 2000 to 3000 experience per fight. Wow. Now it does come with the caveat that if you know the enemies go first, you're probably going to die. There's a lot of risk reward and a lot of time spent going back and forth to save your game. Yes, and it is, but yeah, and that's the other thing is, you know, the original NES version, you couldn't save out in the field. You had to go to the little inn and talk to the inn person to save your game. some big moments that stand out to you in that game if you if you have any recollection like just big moments of that game um so finding bahamut and taking him a rat's tail and like upgrading my classes like like i i mean i i was using a guide but like just you know when i was doing that i was like that's crazy cool that you know it wasn't just oh you're a thief a mage of uh Monk and a warrior, you know, like you can Power up essentially, you know And also Bahamut like that's friggin cool like the whole kind of mystery and just like even the townspeople are just like Or like, you know, you hear rumors and they're like, yeah, there's like a dragon god somewhere around here, but I don't know Another one that sticks out is that I think it's the it's the Kraken Fiend when you go to that town Everyone in town is like they just keep going like ah, it's weird that we have feet and legs and we're walking and I was like, all right, you know, and then you go Beneath it and you meet mermaids and they're like, yeah some of us went and evolved up onto the land and now they have feet and I was like, oh that makes sense why you know, they are so weirded out by their feet Way more sense and I was blown away by that kind of like world building You know? Yeah. Yep. No, that's a very funny note that you made there because that whole switch, because you have to get the oxyle, I think it is, and you have to go actually underwater and to take on the Kraken, which is the water fiend. And you're right, everyone's wandering around like, wow, aren't feet wonderful? Aren't they just great? Man, these things are cool. And it's such a clever way of introducing a character type or a town type, you know, to people in that area. by just kind of launching you into this weird section. games come to an end and Final Fantasy is no difference. The talk about the last moments of this epic NES adventure is John, followed by Greg, then Dan Carnet, and finally the magical games with coffee. I think like off the top of my head the first one that comes in, spoilers for you know a game that came out in 1987 in Japan in 1990 and you're good. This is a spoiler spoiler cast. It's all good is when. You've beaten all of the fiends of the elemental fiends, the four fiends. And when you're standing on top of the tower, like the air fortress or whatever it is, where you fight Tiamat, and you can stand on the little platform and it talks about how all of the energy is flowing into the temple of fiends. And when you go back in there at the end, and all of the bats you can talk to, and they're all the old light warriors. I just really liked that little touch that they put in there and then going back in time and fighting Garland again. And Garland becomes chaos. That's a cool little thing. Does any of it make sense? No. Can you tell me how Garland, who was the captain with the guards, got hooked up with the four fiends who send him back in time, who he then sends them back? forward in time, and then when you kill him, the time loop breaks and like, oh, okay, great, it happened, I believe you. It doesn't, mirroristically makes sense, probably not. Yeah, that's fair. And I think, yeah, and I think even though though, for the time, it really didn't matter as much, you know, I think it was perfectly fine for what it was. No. But I agree with you, that was a really cool moment when you start talking to the bats. My first thought was, do I have to go back to the entire game and talk to every bat? Is that what I'm gonna do now? Can I now just talk to bats? I think the answer is no. Yeah, I don't think no. No, it's just those those ones Just those ones like those four or five or there whatever. Yeah Yeah, and think about how excited those guys were those like, oh my god I've been a bat for how long and someone could talk to me Finally communicating. This is great me was when you finally realize what the point of the game is and you very, very late and Final Fantasy games, the early ones, I think did this as well, where you realize that you're in a time loop and it's a thousand year time loop and Garland is the chaos sphere and you're talking to the bats, which was a really cool addition. All of a sudden you're getting the data dump of all the story right before the final dungeon, which is insanity. It's pure insanity. I loved how it circled back on itself too. Like when that happens and it's like, oh wait, we're going back to where we start. Like we're going back to the beginning. This is so cool. And it's Garland who is chaos. And it's like, oh my God. Like I just, yeah. For a game because, you know, I mean the Final Fantasy series became so narrative driven. I mean, they became almost like movies. The first one wasn't really like that. It had its moments, but it... felt, you know, it was much more simple because it had to be. But yeah, that bringing that all back around. I mean, I guess it was it was similar a little bit to discovering that when you're playing Dragon Warrior, the castle you can see across the the water right from the start is when you realize that's actually the final castle. Right. Like they pulled something similar in Dragon Warrior. But yeah, with with Final Fantasy, I loved that the whole thing came full circle and you. You're literally going back to the beginning to finish the game. So cool. Yeah. Again, and the idea of the warping and again, that final dungeon is insanity. Oh, the boss rush. The boss rush is brutal. And again, you have no ability to heal or any. Again, I think back to it and I wonder because running isn't very easy to do in those dungeons. It's just I don't know how I powered through, but we powered through as kids. We just did it. standout recollections of Final Fantasy one, maybe areas that you remember as a kid just being either stuck on or enthralled by just any big moments that you can recollect? Well, the Marsh Cave is definitely the most infamous for me. I can't tell you how many hours I spent as a kid trying to grind up just to be able to, you know, take the 30 minutes to buy all the potions that I would get in there because you only buy one at a time. But then I think after that, the next thing that I've really that really gets me is the Earth, Earth cave, because that's that's the first like big dungeon. Right. Yes. And yes, I remember as a kid, you know, the first time you go in there and then you fight the vampire and, you know, use fire three on or fire, whatever I had and smoked them. It's easy fight. And then I was like, man, OK, this is cool. And then not knowing that, oh crap, there's like a lot more to this place. Yes. And then then you get up to, you know, the lich and that's a that's a proper fight. And I think that's how I felt with every with every like dungeon. And yeah, I also remember trying to get the what do they what do they call it? Is the oxy ale or whatever? So yeah, the oxyle. Oxyle that. Yep. trying to get that as a kid, like finding it was difficult. But by that, by the time I got to there, though, I wasn't renting the game any anymore. I had owned it and I had that that huge printout map that had all the enemies on one side of the map and it had the actual map itself. And I had even written down little notes on the on the map. of like different enemies and where they were and kind of stuff like that just so that I would I would know. I don't know why I did it. You know, it's not like I was grinding grinding for monster parts or something. Right. No, absolutely. Totally. Totally makes sense. Yeah. I remember the Marsh Cave being the moment where everything was all fun and games until he hit the Marsh Cave and heaven save you if you weren't prepared. or the Marsh Cave, because that's, I think, if I'm remembering correctly, that's when things really began to amp up. Yeah, the biggest thing is that's where you really face your first poison enemies. You get a lot of poison in there, and what you're trying to get to is not easy to get to. You know one of the one of the more interesting ones on the on the PlayStation On the PlayStation version this was pretty cool, too when you're in the flying fortress and You look out of that view that view window I think it was on the second last floor before you hit T Hammett. Yep You can look out of this window in the OG it just pops up It just pops up a text box saying that all the powers of the four fiends are our center are centering at the Temple of Chaos. It's either this one or Dawn of Souls. I think both of them did this. So there's a little mini cutscene that plays where your character looks out the window, you can see the world map below, and you can see the lines of each of the elements coming out from the respective spots and meeting at a locus point. which is smack dab where the temple of chaos is. Interesting. And seeing that, it's just like, oh, that's, that's cool. That's so cool. That's so that was that. That was that from on the origins. And then he also had that on Dawn of Souls and even on the pixel remaster. So seeing that again on the pixel remasters when I playing it, I was like, oh, they, they, they, they kept that. That's cool. That is very cool. Like that visual picture of seeing all of the elements of all the fiends, how we're centralizing it at the temple of chaos. It's like, that's really, it's a really evocative moment where you're saying, okay, yeah, so there's something way bigger than just defeating the four fiends at hand. There's something to be solved here at the Temple of Chaos after all this is done. So our quest isn't over yet. It probably just began. It's a very sophisticated way of storytelling, even in the original NES version where it tells you, right? It can't show to you, obviously, it's an early NES game, but just the fact that it... when that route, I think, was really, really interesting. With our last half hour or so, let's join Dan Carnett, Mike from Major Age TV, Julian and then John as we wrap up with a small sprinkling of everything and anything regarding Final Fantasy 1. And don't don't remember. Please don't forget to hold reset while pressing the power button. Did anybody ever do that? I want to know. Wow. I got to find out why they always told you to do that. I wonder if it has something to do with the internal battery. It makes sense. Yeah, funny. What a memory. I think I did it a couple of times, but I was like, no, no time for this nonsense. The whole three said they had to probably a softer way of turning it on. Maybe I wonder. That's so interesting. It's so funny you mentioned that. That's great. What a good memory. but the Black Mage, just big damn, I liked the, I enjoyed that. I liked the just all -gun, I guess. The real connection with the Black Mage is a kind of like a thing came from a comic down the line. And you might've heard something about this from some of your other guests so far. 8 -bit theater. Did you read that one? I've never read it, but I've heard of it. I've definitely heard about it. OK, so it was hilarious. I was really into it in high school. So so it was just like, OK, yeah, the black mage and the red mage, those are my guys. And I had already liked playing them back in back in the day. Like if I'm really honest with myself, I've played a ton of RPGs over the years, more than probably most people, simply because of my retail days where, you know, in that era I was playing as many video games as your average like magazine reviewer. Like I'm not even bragging, like that's just the way it was. Like I would buy the new game on Tuesday, finish it. by the weekend and then trade it in for the next new game the following Tuesday. And that was my wife for like almost a decade. So I played a lot of RPGs. It's only been in the last few years where I think I've really started to understand how to play RPGs. I finally broke myself of playing these pixel reminiscence. I understand where I got the bad habits from, but the the item hoarding and the using magic, right? Like, no, just just attack. Right. Because like You know, in those in Final Fantasy one in particular, like the spells are not really all that useful versus the regular enemies. So you kind of save them for the for the bosses. And also, you know, you can't really replenish your magic until you rest anyway in that original version. So you're really kind of incentivized to just attack. Right. Like just do that, you know, and and just kind of and that just kind of became this like very ingrained like set of bad habits that literally just in the last couple of years, I've finally been able to break where. You know, I was playing like Trails of Cold Steel 1 last year and I was like, they gave me these items for a reason. Just use the items and it really like made all the difference. I was like, oh, this is a much more dynamic combat system. I wow. OK, like and yeah, it's it's kind of a I'm ashamed to say it, but it's like I think also like a lot of the games that we got over here, they kind of scaled back the difficulty so you could get away with just attacking through. most encounters and you have to your items. Yeah. And I totally get that. I agree with that because I think that started me too, because in Final Fantasy, you can't use magic throughout your adventure because you're going to you need it for the boss. Right. You only have like like a certain number of spell slots and it's never enough. It's never enough unless you have an ether in the remaster. We're just getting so weird. No, I was just going to ask you, when you've played Final Fantasy, who do you give the Mesmun a to? I believe I always run with a fighter thing at that point is he's going to be a knight. So probably I can't. I always played Knight Monk, which turns into a black belt. I never played Thief because I think Thief can use that as well. So I always gave it to, I'm pretty sure Mesmun was a sword. Was it a sword or a knife? Yeah, it's the last sword in the game that you get in the Temple of Fiends at like the very end. Okay. Yeah, I'm just curious because in the Nintendo Power Strategy Guide, they suggest giving it to the White Mage or the White Wizard because every character can use it and now you've got a third like heavy hitter that can keep, you know, that can do damage. So like while she, if she doesn't need to heal in a turn, you can have her attack. and she'll do a bunch of damage. Now it won't be as much as the knight or anyone else that wields that, but because everyone can do it, yeah, yeah. So, you know, why not have a third option for attacking? So that's what I always like to do is give it to like what my third wheel, because your knight can use Excalibur. If you've got a ninja, they can use the cat claw. If you've got a red mage, they can use, I think the defender sword that you get in the, like one of the last towers going up to fight Tiamat. in the desert. So you've got some options. So I always like to do that. I was always curious who people like to give that to. It's like, do you just give it to your fighter and you have him be ultra powerful or do you give it to someone else so that you've got some backup? So. Mental damage. That's actually, I never even thought of that. And I had that Final Fantasy player's guide because it came with the Nintendo Power. It was not a separate thing. It came. Yeah. At that time, Nintendo Power was bi-monthly. And I think they started releasing those players guides on the alternating months. So it was like, yeah, fantasy Mario three, Ninja guide into, and there was one other. Like the four player sports games. I think it was the four player sports games, which is basically just an advertisement for four player sports games. Let's be honest. Let's it wasn't, it wasn't much more to that. Yeah. And maybe like nightmare in Elm street. Cause that was a four player game too. Yes. That's fair too. That is very. So Final Fantasy 1, obviously you label it as your favorite NES game, which considering your history with the NES, that's a big title. And you've explained why a bit. I'd love to know if you have to put one reason behind placing Final Fantasy 1 as your favorite. And you didn't say best, you said favorite because those are two different things. What about Final Fantasy 1 continues to connect with you now? where it would still rank in that top spot. It's it makes me happy and that's really the simplest way I can explain it and Like because my top three are final fantasy one mega man two and castlevania three so it's a ruler like one two three and There is a challenge to it the music is amazing at the time it was graphically impressive and There's really not a whole lot of story, but for most NES games there really wasn't. You've got a trek ahead of you from beginning to end. And ultimately it's kind of comfort food. I'm not gonna get stressed out, oh man, I gotta get this jump, this boss is tough, if I don't do this one thing just right. There's no stress really for me, except for going to the marsh cave. I don't know why the Marsh Cave stresses me out, but the rest of the time to me it's like, you know, eating a bag of chips. It's just like, man, this is great. These are delicious. Thank you so much for listening to this edition of A Gamer Looks at 40. If you haven't done so already, join me on Twitter at A Gamer Looks at 4040 or just go to agamerlooksat4040 .com for anything and everything regarding this podcast. Many thanks to Kev and to Pete Harney for editing the interviews for this episode. Your help is greatly appreciated. Could not do this without you. Thank you for listening all the way to the end and until next time, just be kind to yourselves and each other.