Ep 104: Final Fantasy Mystic Quest - The Entry Level Adventure

While Final Fantasy was already a Japanese phenomenon, things here in the states were slower to gather steam. FF4 did well in stores, but nowhere near the numbers overseas. So, what to do with Final Fantasy 5? Release this complex, job heavy dungeon crawler to a market not ready for it or maybe soften the blow. Just a bit.

That lighter game became Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest, a stripped down version of the Final Fantasy formula made accessible to everyone. By combining the bare bones of an RPG with the kinetic fun of platforming, this oft maligned game remains a fascinating artifact, if nothing else. 

STARRING (all handles from Twitter)

Carson Clark (@DesireeKorrupt)
Greg Sewart of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 (@sewart)
Ian aka @teacherbloke85
J.R. Sommerfeldt (@sommerfeldt_r)
Julian Titus (@julian_titus) of The Stage Select Podcast (@StageSelectPod)
Mekel Kasanova (@MekelKasanova)
Mike Albertin of Games My Mom Found Podcast (@mom_found)
Tim Knowles of The Leetist.
Xerxex

SONG COVERS

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest : Beautiful Forest Acoustic Cover by Steven Morris - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oyv3PQwdCs

FINAL FANTASY MYSTIC QUEST "Boss Battle" Metal Cover by Ferdk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1da5k2Hpyw

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Transcript

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In 1991, Final Fantasy II hit North American shores and was a minor hit. Despite a huge push by Nintendo power and other outlets, the game sold around 350,000 units outside of Japan during its SNES run. And while this seems like a solid chunk of games, at that time, there were about two million Super Nintendo's in the US alone. That means if your sixth grade class had 25 kids in it, about five of them were playing Final Fantasy II. Non -Japanese gamers still weren't sold on this whole turn -based role -playing game thing, especially when there was Sonic and Street Fighter II to play. But 350 ,000 units isn't an epic fail either. So when it came time to continue the Final Fantasy franchise in North America, Square opted to leave Final Fantasy 5 in Japan and develop a new, easy to play title in the Final Fantasy Legend III engine. The result was Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, an entry level RPG designed to attract North American gamers who weren't quite ready for the crunchy grind of job systems and, well, weapon equipping. The result was mixed. Mystic Quest sold around 400 ,000 units in North America, gaming reviewers of the day claimed it was Final Fantasy for babies, and it largely went ignored in popular culture. But what of the people who played it, both of its day and now? Did Final Fantasy Mystic Quest do its part in bringing more North American gamers to the RPG table, or did we have to wait until the epic Final Fantasy III before the madness truly took hold? And is it worth playing now? Time to fire up our Super Nintendo, name our character anything but Benjamin, and prepare to jump our way to victory as we begin episode 104, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, the entry level adventure. Throughout this episode, you'll likely hear me say a number of times, maybe I'll have a Mystic Quest show. See, most of the schedule for this podcast is determined by the interviews themselves. So if nobody wants to talk about a game, I generally won't do it. I try not to... force games into the schedule if there's just not enough conversation for it. There's time for that. And that's exactly where I was on Mystic Quest until talking to the great Julian Titus of the Stage Select podcast. Join us as we set the table for this combo conversation of positive vibes and less than rosy perspectives. Tonight, what I'd like to talk a bit about is a game I wasn't going to cover initially. It's one of those kind of, if I get enough stuff, I will, but it turns out I might have enough for an episode. And I find it interesting, which is Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. So have you played that at all at any point? Yes. Yeah. Okay. A couple of times actually all the way through. Okay. What was your experience with it? What was your first foray into that? So this was, you know, this set up a thing that has haunted me to this day. You know how you make deals with your parents when you're a kid. Right. And this was one of those things. This actually happened a couple times. I got Final Fantasy 6, slash 3, when we got our computer, our first computer, because I told my mom, I was like, well, you know, if we're charging the computer, you know, like an extra little, you know, a couple games isn't really gonna be that much worse. And that's also, that's still to this day, the way that I think about credit cards, terrible. It's very bad. So, you know, I'll get into debt and it's like, well, you know, I can... I can buy this PlayStation 2 VR, because it's not that much worse than what I'm already into. So this was one of those, I forget what the purchase was. It was a fairly large purchase, but I was able to convince my mom to let me get Final Fantasy Mystic Quest and Super Metroid at the same time. And keep in mind, I very rarely got new games. And I don't remember what... impetus was for this. I do remember that Mystic Quest was cheap. That was the big thing. And I think Mystic Quest actually launched at a much lower price point than most cartridge games because it very much was positioned as the entryway into RPGs from Squaresoft. It's called like Final Fantasy USA in Japan because that was the whole deal with it. And yeah, I was glad to get it. I'd seen ads for it. I'd probably seen previews for it in EGM and stuff like that. And it had Final Fantasy on the name. I already liked Final Fantasy, so it was kind of a no -brainer. And really enjoyed it. It didn't bother me that it was a much easier Final Fantasy game because it was still so new at the time. RPGs were still so new for me at the time that I was kind of grabbing anything that I could and also, like, you never get tired of that battle theme. So you really know, you know, it's one of the all time greats. Yeah, it really is. Experience Final Fantasy at this point. So you'd already played for I'm assuming this is around the time of Super Metroid Super Metroid was 94 I want to say Yes, so this was a couple years after because I believe found it a mystic quest came out in See 92 in North America. So yeah, it was a couple years old at this point. It released at $40 What was your what was your kind of take on it? And what's your feeling on it now as a game because people loathe at this game and I I played it just recently for this show. I figured it's a little snack. It's an easy little game. And I have my thoughts, but I'd love to hear what you think about it then and maybe now as you kind of think back on it. Yeah. Well, then, like I said, I really enjoyed it. You know, I liked that, you know, like one thing is that like right off the bat, I changed the the way that hit points were displayed because it would do like a life bar thing. I can't. That was nightmarish. Forget it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, well, I've played enough of these games. I like the numbers. So that was like the big option change that I did. But no, I liked the way that it had like kind of like a Zelda NIST to the overworld where you actually had like items and abilities that would allow you to get to different areas and find treasure and other secrets and stuff like that. If memory serves like you have kind of a rotating cast, like you have your main character and then you have like party members that kind of come and go. Yep. All our Final Fantasy 2. Yep. So that was neat. One thing that I really loved in Mystic Quest that I wish that they would do to this day is that the enemies had like battle damage. I thought was one of the coolest elements. Very, very cool. Very funny. Yep. Very fun. And it really adds a lot of progression. And if the enemy is curing itself, it'll move back up. It'll generate some of its stuff. I think really clever thing. And I'm surprised they never revisited in any Final Fantasy game that I know of. have you had that with, yeah. Even RPGs in general, like I can't think of a game that does that. You know, and I think it would be easier now with like polygonal models, because you can just deform them and stuff like that. Like these were like sprites, so they're making like completely new, you know, art pieces for like each of these phases of the damage. Yeah, which takes up memory and all the rest of it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I played it, beat it, enjoyed it. And then I remembered like, firing it back up again because it's one of the games that I owned, so that, you know, like what else am I gonna do? And I was like, okay, I'm going to beat every enemy that I see because in this game, you actually see the enemies on the overworld and once you beat them, they're done, right? I think if you reload into an area, they'll come back. But my goal was like every new area, I would just like take out every enemy like in there before I would like move on to the boss and finish off the area. So that was kind of like my like 100 % completion run of Mystic Quest, like when I was still a teenager. I have not revisited as an adult. I did pick up a like a used copy like, you know. probably not relatively not that long ago, probably like six or seven years ago when I started like getting into like the collecting thing. So I was like, right, Mystic Quest, that's a thing that I need to have. But I haven't really fired it up other than to just test it out. But my memory of it is still very positive. I don't really get the hate because I think it does what it set out to do, which was be an accessible. like, you know, first RPG for someone. I think as a first RPG, it's really solid. And it wasn't my first RPG and I still enjoyed it, you know, at my, you know, edgiest when, you know, it would have been very easy for me to be like, this is a this is a Final Fantasy for babies. No, I didn't. I never felt that. Like I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's interesting. I played it again a few. I started it maybe a month ago. I got through it within a couple of weeks of playing on a regular basis. It's. What I find interesting about it is it's definitely designed to, I try to put myself in this situation or the mindset of if I had never played an RPG and this was my first, would this get me into RPGs? And I really gave it some thought and I have to play and play. I think it might have, or at the very least would have enticed me to, it's just enough there to entice me to rent Final Fantasy 2 or Final Fantasy 3. You know, I tried this one and it's, and there's no, It makes no attempt to deceive you. On the box it says, entry level role playing adventure. It says it right there and there's a free strategy guide offer, battery backup saves up to three games, which wasn't a thing if I remember at that point, even with like Final Fantasy II, I don't think you had separate saves in the original Final Fantasy II. You did? Okay, so that was... I think you had four, three or four, but yeah. That was like the power of the Super Nintendo, right? That was like one of the big selling points. That's a good point. You're right. You could have multiple saves, but they make no this. They tell you right. This is an entry level role playing game. And I think if I had that was my first, it might have done the trick. And I can imagine it doing the trick for a lot of people of that era. that already being a fan of the series and saying, this is actually kind of neat. Again, you have the opera. You can jump. You can use your weapons in the overworld. I really like the fact you can switch weapons on the fly mid battle. I think that's really neat and it allows for a lot of trial and error. So if you're learning, you're like, this didn't do well. This axe didn't do well against this shrub. Let me try the sword. OK, that did better. Cool. It's teaching you those little mechanics. I think without the extra stuff of equipping and inventory management and all the all the stuff that comes along with with a traditional role playing game, I think it's a pretty neat artifact. It's no, I do too. And I actually will be looking forward to when like this part of the series comes out, because I would love to hear from someone who this was like their entry level, right? Like this was the thing that got them in because yeah, I would I would. You know, I'm very curious. I've always been curious actually, like how successful it actually was as far as that, right? Like, you know, how many people rented or bought Mystic Quest and then, you know, went on to continue to play RPGs, right? What was it enough to get them interested enough, like you said, to go check out Final Fantasy 3, which would have been the next game to come out after Mystic Quest. Right. Because, yeah, you know, I, for me, I think it does a good job. And there's also like, you know, that... It's still got like some recognizable stuff in there. Like I, I remember like the goblins. It's funny because I'm playing Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth right now. And there's a mini quest where you encounter a goblin and he's kind of a spitting image of the goblin design from Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. get out of here. That's pretty cool. Okay. Yeah. You know, right down to like the cap and everything like that. And, you know, like, like it's, again, it's got just enough of like the Final Fantasy flavor. to get you there, but not overtly so. I'm trying to think, I don't think that there's Chocobos or Moogles in, well, Moogles wouldn't have been a thing yet. No, I guess they would have been in Japan, but not for us. So yeah, I don't think, it doesn't have some of the things that you think of when you think of Final Fantasy, but it's still got enough, right? It's still got recognizable spells and recognizable enemies and mechanics that work for how simplified it is. you Despite popular opinion, there are people out there who actually like, nay, love Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. Let's join Ian, AKA TeacherBlook85 on Twitter, followed by Carson Clark, and finally Mike Alberton of Games My Mom Found, all show some unexpected love to this much -maligned video game. Very quickly, with our last few minutes, you mentioned you've played through Mystic Quest. Yes. Which is a divisive Final Fantasy game. It was the... So I'd love to hear a bit of your experience with Final Fantasy Mr. Quest when you say that sounds like you played it before 7. Yeah. Yeah, I played that when I was about 9 or 10 years old possibly even before possibly about 8 or 9 definitely the first turn based game I ever played and Again, I kind of saw it as something new something different something novel I didn't know it was gonna turn out to be a huge important thing. But yeah, I enjoyed it. I thought it was you know neat enough, you know there was nothing too taxing there for you know the age I was at the time and some of those bosses with the multiple phases and how the sprite changes and gets more and more worn down throughout the battle I thought that was quite neat. I will say the only reason I bought it was because I had already got and enjoyed Mystic Quest on the Game Boy which course over there, Final Fantasy Adventure. Right, right, right. And that's Secret of Mana, the original one, isn't it? So yeah, that's a weird little connection from Final Fantasy into Secret of Mana. That's possibly where I get my love for that game from as well. That's interesting because it sounds like your connection to Final Fantasy started kind of where Square wanted it to because those games were released as very basic, straightforward, simple games to get. Western audiences into RPGs, it sounds like that's it worked. It got you in. And I'll still say to this day, Square Enix seem to be trying to reinvent the wheel with the combat systems they're creating, the more action based combat systems. I don't know why they're trying to reinvent it so much. They already perfected it with Secret of Mana. Yeah, that's a very good point. You know, you swing your sword and then the counter just runs up to 100 percent. Then you can take another strong hit. It was perfect. Yeah. You're right. That's exactly right for sure. Should people give Mr. Quest a go? Absolutely. It's something totally different. It's a cozy game, I think. It's comfortable and there's nothing really, really taxing about it. You don't have to worry too much about level grinding because you've got these extra battles, but there's only 15 of them per area or 10 per area. And once you've done that, you're leveled up enough. So, because that's something that I struggled to get my head around back in those days. I remember having a game on the Super Nintendo called Lagoon and it was more of an action RPG. But I didn't realize there was a leveling up system and getting stuck on the first boss thinking, why is this thing one-shotting me? Until someone pointed out, what's this level thing? I have to go out there and grind. Okay. And. That was my introduction to level grinding was lagoon. Wow, lagoon. That's so funny because Mr. Quest just kind of used you along. OK, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Which is nice because that's what gamers really want now. Like nobody really enjoys grinding and just plugging away at the same enemies over and over again. That's a big thing we want in RPGs is to kind of feel that natural sense of progression. Yes, we don't have to go through and you know, although to be fair, I am playing Trinity Trigger at the moment and. For about an hour or two last night I was just sat there level grinding. I'd got the thing on mute, you know, so I could listen to some music and yeah, it's just comfortable, it's cosy. I think also the music was pretty big in it as well. I don't think it was Uematsu doing it, but I remember some of the tracks and some of the battles in it pretty well. Like the final battle of the game and in the game, if I recall correctly, the moms or the bad guys were, did not move around. They stood in one place and you had to engage them because they were probably, they were in the. in your way you had free movement, but you had to bump into them to start combat. It was pretty revolutionary for the time. I mean, that's actually, you know, I like that, that you can choose whether or not you want to engage in the battle or not. I am a weirdo. I kind of like random encounters. I don't mind them. I'm very strange in that way. I just have weird tastes. I don't put milk in my cereal and I don't mind random encounters at all, actually. But... that's just me, but it's really nice to have that opportunity. And people kind of dunk on Mystic Quest because it was so basic, but it sounds like for us, somebody who played it of its time, it's something you got into. Mystic Quest sound like it worked for you probably because of that simplicity, I would think, based on, again, just what we're discussing. Mr. Mike, we are here again to talk a bit about Final Fantasy, a topic that I have done nothing to talk about, I feel like, for the last three months, but here we are. But it's great. And it's great because Final Fantasy is by and large great. So the other day I posted that I was going to play Mystic Quest, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, and play ska music on stream and just kind of hang out, play music and 3x speed. Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. To which you then replied on Discord, ooh, I love that game. I need to be on that one. I'm not kidding either. And here you are. So Mr. Alberton, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, what's your story with it? So a lot of people hate this game. They call it baby's first RPG. They call it like a kiddie game. And I disagree with all of those statements. Yes, it is an easy RPG, but it is a very... Unique game. When I was a kid, I thought it was like the first Final Fantasy because all I knew was Mystic Quest, Final Fantasy for NES, Final Fantasy 2, slash 4, and 3 slash 6. So to me, this was like one of the first ones. I didn't know the history of it being, you know, made easier for dumb American audiences. But and it was also one of those situations where we rented it from from Blockbuster and that's how I found it. And that's how I first played it. Like a lot of like and that's Okay, so you say it was a black was a blockbuster exclusive. We got it or a lot exclusive I was a blockbuster game. Yes. Okay, and you So you but you like this game. I still love it I had so when I was a kid it was one of the games that me and my dad would play together a lot because I Was very bad at video games like I couldn't play Super Mario World. I couldn't play not in country. I mean I did but not well But an RPG was something I could play and for what we used to do is I would walk around on the on the overworld and on the screen and he would do the battle so I passed the controller to him. Why? I don't know looking back because I was old enough to read like I knew how to read but that's how we played and like Mystic Quest is one of those games where one thing it does that I think is so special is it shows the enemies deteriorating as you hurt them. All enemies will have usually about one two phases or he fully fully fully healed. Almost in mid health almost dead, but when you fight mini bosses and bosses they go like through maybe four or five different phases I haven't played this game in over a year, but from what I remember or maybe two years and to me that grabbed me as a kid and when I played this game two years ago or one to two years ago for gave my mom found it still grabbed me it is still so fucking cool, you know, it's interesting you say that I There are some neat things about this game. I played it for the first time again on stream I played it at 3x speed your character walks very slowly. Yes The dungeons in this game are sprawling and make very little sense Which is fine because and we'll talk about some of the gameplay elements. I Think this is a decent adventure. I find this game very boring though. A lot of people do I find it extraordinarily boring and I tried to look at this game through the lens of, Hey, this was marketed as entry level RPG. This was marketed as an RPG for kids. Like that's what the point of the game was on the back of the box. It says it in big letters, entry level RPG. Like there's no, they're not trying to sugar coat the fact that this is supposed to be a pretty straightforward game, but boy, boy. It is exceedingly repetitive. You see, I don't have any of that. Interesting. I don't find the game boring. I like the map. I like the way you move across the world map and you go from square to square. And I like the way the dungeons are. I like it that you can see the enemies, that there's items that alter things. I do like that. I like the fact that the items, the fact you can see the enemies is great. I had a moment, Mike Alberton, on the last stream. that was sparsely attended, let's just say. So no one got to see this. And since I was playing licensed music, Twitch doesn't save those recordings. So I can't even clip it. There's this little thing in the game, Mike, where, and this would be, this is like any RPG, obviously. When you leave the area that you're in, the dungeon you're in, the enemies come back. Now, when you're in the level, the enemies are permadeath. So once you've cleared out a floor, you go back to that floor, there's no one there. Yes. So that and when you're walking around in a three X speed, it's not a big deal to like just wander around aimlessly until you find your way. It's not a problem. But boy, boy, is it when you mistakenly leave the volcano. that's when you have to go back. I mean, as a kid, you'd not say for a while. And I had to luckily I was able to fumble my way back and get my way back relatively quickly. But I sat there for a good three minutes on stream going I don't know if I can do this see I don't have any of that with this game like I when I played this game last time I Think I played it probably on the Steam Deck or maybe on my phone. I can't remember But I don't think I played it in multiple speed. It's possible. I did and I just don't remember but I Mean I know as a kid there are many times where we would go in and out of place and get stuck if we got stuck in this game a lot when I was when I was a kid me and my dad did yeah, I You can get yourself stuck quite often in this game. A, there's the internet and B, there's a mechanic in this game also where you can jump, where you can actually do jumps, like little hops up and down. Pretty neat on the overworld. I guess they did that so it's a little more actiony, again, more palatable for those who are Legend of Zelda fans. And using your weapons. Like you can use the dragon claw you get. Like a slingshot, like a hookshot. I mean, just so much cool stuff that, you know, I don't remember being on, it wasn't on other NES games. I also will say that it was very interesting and I do like the fact that the enemies degrade over time. Like they degrade, like they were, I think that's a very cool effect that they've never really done ever again. This is such a unique game. And everybody hates this game. When I reviewed it on my show, the two people that I reviewed with, Both that joined me both hated it besides me. So I'm a unique specimen in this case Mike Albert in your unique specimen and all things. Yes, but you will be hard -pressed to find anyone else to talk about Mystic Quest as a good game to me a great SNES RPG that people overlook I Can't say great. I and again, I I looked at it through the lens of this is an entry -level game And I think it's important to have these kinds of experiences. I think it's especially for the era when RPGs were not very popular in the West yet. They were still very much so an Eastern thing. You're trying to get people into this Final Fantasy thing. Sure. Why not? But if I have to see Benjamin, who's your lead character, do that weird shrug one more time. He's always shrugging Mike Alberton. I love it. I do that. So when I again I have rose -colored glasses for this I've done that shrug and to this day if I if I go see my dad when I do and I and if I do that stupid shrug and do it like him he'll laugh and know exactly what it's from and we haven't played this game together in That's cute 20 some years. So, I mean that's very sweet for me. It is rose -colored glasses like one reason I love this game because I was there when it was made type of thing, you know, it was something that was part of my childhood But even like when I reviewed it for the show and I replayed it I I still find charm in it. Yes, it's slow Yes, it's easy, but sometimes just having a game on and just playing through the experience to me can work And also you have to be doing something when I played this game, I'm sure I had podcasts going I'm sure I was doing other things watching a movie like it wasn't like I just sat down pulled out my Nintendo I mean, this is on a handheld device with a TV on right and You know you were doing you're playing Scott music which twitch went no no no you didn't say the magic word no no no I let me play it just wouldn't say it doesn't save the audio on the VOD there's no big guy that came on the screen shaking his finger at you when you do it no no no no no no didn't say the magic word I still I when I had it off top but when I had a tech job well it wasn't a job but I was that guy and I said that to somebody when they needed me to help them with their computer and they looked at me like I was an asshole like how do you not get the reference how do you not get that someone I said you didn't say the magic word no no no and they're like what I'm like, Trash to Parque, come on. But yes. Shameful, shameful. Anyway, so Mystic Quest, I think, is an interesting experiment and I think they definitely, there's some value to it. Because again, I think there's value to entry level RPGs. But boy, boy, if I had gotten this before, if this was my first RPG, I don't think I would ever have tried. I think it would have done the opposite that Nintendo intended, which was. entice kids to like, let me try these RPG things. I think I've been like, this is extremely boring. You can't equip any weapons. It auto equips all your weapons. But that's what makes it great, too. What do you mean that makes it OK? I'm going to say something to OK. Super controversial. I like this game way more than Earthbound. So there I'm with that out there. I do. I'm. I'm gonna include this in this please do I mean I if you want me to not remember there's a standing rule if you say anything on this show and then you think back who I may not want to I think earth founds not a great game I think it's not so I'm reviewing actually this year on my show because I need to replay it but no I love mystic so no I have no problem with a miss question great game people just I like the fact that you your weapons are auto -equipped and that you switch them with L &R to what you want and that I Just think it's a great little game Like I mean you said like it is a beginner's RPG like as they said like you know and it's good for that but I think it's just entertaining and the way that you like for the bosses every boss is such an event to get to in each other dungeons like for example if Did you beat the game yet? I have not I have to do one more dungeon I've got three of the four crystals. Have fun with the tower by the way I'm just gonna say that but the tower you have to hit different switches like an elevator in the end the boss will move around you get to go up and down up and down hmm fun And as I know you just you just convinced me not to finish just watch it on YouTube. That's exactly what I was a kid I can't tell you how long it took us to figure this out where you have to hit these switches To close the elevator so the boss but like to see the boss and keep seeing him move and I think this is the boss where you like you knock off his pants as you heard him and he's just wearing boxers or something silly They're silly ass stuff and I love it. Like I was, like the animations when the enemies break down like the Medusa's when they go bald and they put their hand on it, I'm like, no, I'm bald. That was actually very funny. I actually had like, I knocked off all of her hair snakes. It's not, okay, I don't think it's a terrible game, but I do think they watered it down so much where it's so, it's too far from the original product. I don't know. I just I for some reason I find it just really boring and again I'm playing it on an emulator in 3x speed and that's as fine because I'm just zipping around the screen I'm not but you don't have the things nostalgic for it. So, I mean I don't nostalgia for it and that's part of it for me Yeah, but also I just like The style of RPG and it and I haven't found another game ever like Mystic Quest. I mean reasons There's probably reasons why It wasn't widely received it wasn't I mean would I? Talk so highly about the game if I didn't play it as a kid and have that experience with my dad. I don't know maybe Maybe you know I don't know yeah, but that's what I love like I remember very clearly When you have to go up in one of the wind towers and you fight the first time you fight the headless horsemen It took me. I mean it was a Saturday morning me and my dad I got up we got up we got some Nintendo running and we're sitting there playing through that whole dungeon in the morning Like little things like that and that's why that game that's why this game so important to me But when I replayed I replayed it now I beat this game three times once when I was a kid and twice as an adult years apart But twice as an adult One for a show and one just because I wanted to like that's I mean how many people you probably aren't gonna talk to many people who beat this game three times I think the chances are probably not chances are pretty much gonna be zero Well again, and that's why I like this show because it's you can't argue with your personal experiences, right? I can't argue the fact that you had a Connecting moment with your dad over this game and I think that's really cool and sweet and that's awesome I mean, yeah can't argue with that. So I mean, yes, Benjamin is a stupid character. Yes, like the story is Kind of dumb where this floating guy keep telling you Yeah, barely there but but it functions as a game I think you can soft lock yourself in certain parts. I think there are certain parts that are bugged in the game. but regardless, it's still it's still a you know, it's an interesting artifact that I'm going to be looking forward to doing a small episode on it because I think it is an interesting artifact in the final fantasy. So thank you for sharing your story on it. Of course. to thank my wonderful patrons and DJ Horn, big news. We have a brand new patron on the $5 friend tier, Mr. Philip Becker. Phil, thank you so much for joining the Patreon and supporting the show financially at patreon .com forward slash a gamer looks at 40. He joins legends and luminaries like Terry Canare, Greg Seward of the player one podcast and generation 16 series of videos. Games with Coffee, The Let's Play Princess, BT Gobbles, Tim Knowles, formerly of The Leadest, Julian of the Stage Select Podcast, Seth Sergel of the All N Podcast, and the one and only editor-incredulare, Pete Harney. If you'd like to join these amazing people, go to that aforementioned Patreon page, check out the tiers, and sign up today. Continuing our conversation about Final Fantasy Mystic Quest is Tim Knowles, formerly of The Leadest, followed by content creator Mikhail Kassanova, and concluding with new friend of the show, Xerxes. Now, to transition a little bit from Final Fantasy VI, you mentioned a game at the very beginning of this that I didn't think I was going to talk about in this Final Fantasy series. It turns out I am, because people keep bringing it up, and that is Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. Now here's my thing, I never played Mystic Quest. I recently just now, I'm not quite done with it, I've been doing it on stream. I've been streaming Mystic Quest and playing Scott music. That's been like my streams for the last couple times I've streamed. I've been playing deep cut Scott music and playing Mystic Quest on 3x speed on emulator. And no one shows up and it's fine, but I'm jamming and having a great old time. So what's your take on Mystic Quest? It sounds like this is a game that really connected with you. It got you, it did what it was supposed to do. First of all, I have to comment that, you know, while the, well the, well the Scott thing is very cool. As a kid that grew up as a metalhead, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, it was a beautiful soundtrack. Like that, the battle music, the boss music, the Dark King's boss music at the end of the game are all phenomenal. I actually grew up near a guy who was really into retro games and he would do metal mixes of on his guitar. And he did the entirety of it, did a couple of the themes from Final Fantasy Mystic Quest and included it up. And they're just they're just great metal songs. I mean, you know, they're all in, you know, early Super Nintendo sound quality and everything. But but yeah, Mystic Quest, something about it, it was of course, first of all, it was very approachable. You know, it's super linear, but I'll be honest with you, one of the things that stands out to me that I love so much about the game is the names of the characters. I always liked Phoebe and Tristam and Ruben. They're great names. They're just really great, memorable names. Those are the names your cool friends name their kids. And you go, dad, dad, ma. I can't be that cool and name my kid Tristan like that's an awesome name for a kid Exactly. Yeah, that's actually really funny. Man just doing you know doing the battlegrounds the the the collapsing of the sprites as You know you whittle down. I love that health is such a very cool. I cool very cool idea very cool idea. Yeah, and It was easy, you know? Towards the end, it gets a little tougher dealing with paralyzes, I think, especially. The paralyzed spell gets particularly heinous as you get towards end game in that one. But just doing those little 10 battle battlegrounds and seeing all the cool sprites that they've created for the game. I love that perspective. I wish there were more games from back then that had that like... your characters backs facing the enemy. I thought that was really neat. It was neat. It reminded me a lot of like, Fantasy Star. Like, it has that kind of vibe where, again, it doesn't feel as Final Fantasy as Final Fantasy is, obviously. We all know the backstory of it. But, again, I don't know if it would have been... It's an interesting game. I think it's an interesting artifact. And I think it's indicative of how much Square... didn't trust the success of RPGs in the West. They just didn't think this was going to fly. And we need to give these Western gamers something that's easy to digest, that you can jump in the overworld and you can flash your sword and your axe around like pretend you're Link. That resonates with me. The sound effect of the sword opening like a door that that shing, purr, kip noise was what was my notification tone on my phone for. quite a while. Yeah, like, and the sound, you know, as of like the axe, for example, as you upgraded it to like the second level, the third level gets deeper. It gets more. Yeah. And and then, you know, even as a little kid, you think to yourself, I bet axes would be more effective against trees. And you're absolutely right. You're rewarded for assuming that, you know. So there's a lot of wins within that relatively simple game that especially I even. yeah, just especially made it approachable for me. I also love in Mystic Quest the ability to change your weapon midstream. So it allows you to really try things out. Like you just said, hey, I did a claw and it was not that effective. Let me try my sword. OK, that was more effective. And some of that game gets tricky. I I died a few times. Like I got a couple of situations where I was paralyzed and I just got wrecked. And I got to say, I really do love. Hey, do you want to try this battle again? Yeah, absolutely. Kind of makes the need to like use spells and stuff a little less important. If you're like, I'll just try it again and hope for a better RNG this time. But again, all those little things, those little things made it so very palatable. I can see someone getting into it and being like a good bridge between a Zelda and a Final Fantasy. I think I dig it. That's that's a great perspective on it, because I was thinking the exact same thing. Little action things. that you can do and it was a great, you know, bridge gaffer. So anyway, we were very quickly discussing the masterpiece that is, the modern masterpiece that is Mystic Quest. So you're about to tell a story about your experiences with Final Fantasy and Mystic Quest. I'm dying to hear this. Okay, so, Stephen and DeLorean, we'll go back to mid -90s. Is that a blockbuster or could have been a Hollywood video. I don't know which one it was. But every week I got to rent one game and this is back when rentals are like three days before you got the five day rental. So I rented Mystic Quest because I needed more Final Fantasy. I was obsessed with it. It was the bar for great storytelling in the video game. And so when I got that, I looked at the box art. I thought it looked really cool. And I was like, okay, cool. This is going to be great. I looked at the back of it. I'm like, okay. This looks cool. Turn base, all this other stuff. And then I think I was under 10 years old. I had to admit and I played it. And I remember thinking to myself, damn, this is insulting my intelligence and I'm not even 10. I'm just like, wait, wait, where's the controller? I need a controller. So. so I can recreate this. Wait, wait, here we go. Here's the switch controller. I'm over here like, I'm, that's it? Just that? I know you guys probably can't see it, but I'm just like, what? Hitting the A button. He's hitting the A button like just over and over like, this is all I'm doing, huh? I just hit this one button. Really? That's so funny. that's really funny. You were the target audience for that game. Yeah, and insulted you. Yes. Target audience. That's basically what you're saying. You insulted you. The target audience. 10 year olds, nine year, nine and 10 year olds who have never who are used to playing Mario. That is wild. That is so funny. That's there is nothing to it. But I as an artifact, as an idea. And as like an entry level again, baby's first step into, into an RPG. I think it's respectable. And I think it does a couple of neat things. I'm playing it right now. I'm playing it on stream when I, the rare chance I get to stream and because it's, I can mindlessly just hit the A button. I literally the next time I stream, I'm going to be playing like music in the background, like, and, and just hit the A button because just to get through it and just talking, cause there's me sitting here hitting the A button is not going to be terribly interesting. It's not a good streaming. I figured that out the hard way. But anyway, there's nothing to it, but I kind of respect it because it tells you on the box. There's nothing to this like it says and designed for entry level players like it says it. And it's not trying to lie to you and it's not trying to say this is Final Fantasy 2 SNES Final Fantasy 2. This is Mystic Quest and it's just there. Yeah, you know, interesting artifact. It is and like when I think about it, I'm like I'm trying I try to put myself in the shoes of like Squaresoft at the time Why you would pick that? over Live Alive or mmm. I don't know anything else Yeah, like can we have gotten bottom of the goon which is you know, like something other than that it's I get it. I get it because at the time, RPGs weren't really big. They didn't really become mainstream until technically seven with what the PlayStation one. own thing. I'd love to hear your take on Mystic Quest real quick actually if you don't mind us pivoting a little bit. What's your take on Mystic Quest? I think it's interesting. More than good. That is definitely a guilty pleasure of mine. Okay cool. But you know like for me it's like well I have it you know like I have it collecting dust and like the cartridge and everything. When I play it I always got to play it on an emulator with the ability to just fast forward. That is exactly. Yep. that's so funny. That's exactly how I did it. I played it for the first time a couple of months ago for this podcast series, and it was three X speed on an emulator and it was. I can't imagine going through that on One Next Speed, especially those dungeons that are really tricky and labyrinth -like, just crawling through that all slow. man. It's an interesting experiment, I think. As a game, though, you say it's a guilty pleasure. What about it gives you that reaction? because overall, I mean, it's like, gameplay -wise, it's so bare bones. It's so bare bones and almost like... infantile it's almost like condescending with how it's presented to you it's like you died and that that's that's okay that's okay here dust yourself off just do it all over again you know learn you know like you know like you know don't let this easy game beat you up too badly here just like take another shot at it And finally, taking the role of the mixed reactionaries is gaming writer J .R. Sommerfeldt and finally, Greg Seward of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 series of videos. I have to admit this. I really do have to admit this. There is a game that saved my love for RPGs and you will never, ever believe what it was. Go for it. It was a Final Fantasy game. It was Final Fantasy Mystic. It was Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. How interesting. Really? It did what it was designed to do. It was supposed, it was designed to actually get Americans into the JRPG genre and sure enough, it hooked me. I love that game. That's so fun. And playing it now, because I actually got to sit in on Red's... Streaming of that game and gosh it is You know I yeah, it's really really difficult to to defend now As being a good game, but when you're you know nine or ten and the game comes out and yeah, it's got rock and music In your plane, it's just like this is actually really cool This is really cool and it's not confusing at all. And it wasn't. That's cool. I like the idea of that bridge game because again, that's one of those games where it's very much so derided as being very simple, straightforward. But I can definitely see that being a great starting kit almost for a JRPG to get used to the mechanics and see if you like it and being a lightweight experience. Mystic quest is that that's the game another game people have said or is misunderstood You get that a lot. What is your take on it? I've never played it. So I don't I can't get too deep into it I might do like a small mini so not a baby if I get enough but yeah, I I don't know that it's misunderstood. Well, I Guess you could say it's misunderstood. I have not played that game since it came out But I mean they were pretty clear about what that game was when it was first released. I mean, it was, you know, I don't know if it said so on the box, but I remember sort of all the press about that game where it's like, this is your little brother's Final Fantasy, for lack of, excuse me, for lack of a better term. I played it because I played anything that had the name, the words Final Fantasy on it. I didn't dislike it, but it was, you know, I mean, it was a kiddie ride. And I think if anything, I felt probably it was a little disappointing from the standpoint of, you know, with Final Fantasy IV, you had this big bombastic epic story, this huge world. You know, again, in hindsight, it looks like an early Super Nintendo game, but they still were trying to do interesting things with like the lighting and the music was gorgeous and... and you had as many special effects as I felt like they could cram in, not really knowing how the system worked and it being such new hardware. Mystique Quest felt like a step back from an audio visual standpoint, which I think was the disappointing bit. It was almost like, you know, they were clear about the fact that this is your little brother's Final Fantasy. We're not, you know, we're not putting too much effort into this. This isn't like a game that we're spending years creating. Right. But you could see it on the screen, which I think is probably the only real disappointing part of it. You know, it's kind of like the flip side of a movie. When you see the movie, it's a huge buzz. It's a phrase I like to use a lot. It's like, you can see it on the screen. Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. And sometimes you can't. And that's the disappointing part, if it's supposed to be sort of a blockbuster special effects film or something like that. And that's, I think, where Mystic Quest lives. But I mean, you know. Again, they were honest about what they were trying to accomplish with that game. They really were. I'm looking at the front of the box and the first thing it says on the front of the box is entry level role playing adventure. They slap it right there on the front and on the back. The first thing it says, here's your chance to play the world's first role playing game for the entry level player. Like they are not, they weren't, they weren't trying to trick anybody on this one. No, no. And I think. You know, that's a wonderful, and I don't know if people who play it nowadays are the ones who are disappointed about it, but I think that's a wonderful example of context is important in these old games. I love now, 20 years later, that younger players or just new players that never tried the game before get to discover this stuff, especially from the early 90s, because my heart is with video games in the early 90s. That was when I really... I mean, I still love this hobby, but that was probably when my passion was at its hottest. And I love seeing people discover these old games that I enjoyed, but sometimes context is really important. And I think Mystic Quest is a great example of that. It's like if you've just started this as a ROM, you can't figure out where it fits in the canon of Final Fantasy releases. It doesn't look better than the previous game in the series. It doesn't play better. It doesn't sound better. It's very basic. It's very primary. And if you don't know why, because you don't have the box or you don't have magazine articles from the day or you don't have the instruction manual, how would you ever know? It's easy to be disappointed by it. That's fair. And I think the context is important, too, because, again, during this era, RPGs were still making a foothold in the West as well. Absolutely. They were still trying to get a foothold because the NES didn't have a ton of RPGs at all. There was not many. And then the SNES, when it first came out, of course, had Final Fantasy IV and Drakken, which is, I don't know how anyone plays that game. I tried once. I had 15 minutes and I said, that's enough of this. I don't even... That guy I played through Final Fantasy IV with, he played through, he owned Drakken. Get out of here. That's funny. With me. I wasn't having that. No, that's impressive. Thanks so much for listening to this edition of A Gamer Looks At 40. If you enjoyed this episode there's a lot more Final Fantasy in the feed be sure to check that out. Also go to my website agamerlooksat4040.com go to the full series section and you have a handy dandy playlist of all of the large series I've done Final Fantasy, Legend of Zelda, Earthbound, etc. Many thanks to Kev from the Discord and the wonderful P Harney for cutting up the intro Thanks to my guests for being, well, just amazing guests, and thank you for listening to this edition of A Gamer Looks at 40. And until next time, just be kind to yourselves and each other.