A Gamer Looks At 40
An exploration of the history of video games told through the stories of the every day people who lived it. Join me along with a rotating cast of friends, family, gaming journalists, and industry types as we share personal recollections from the last thirty years of gaming, one story at a time.
A Gamer Looks At 40
Ep 111: Final Fantasy 6 (Part 6) - Connections to an Ensemble Cast
Any discussion of Final Fantasy 6 would be incomplete without a thorough deep dive into the cast. From rakish rouges to magic infused generals to a loyal solider, the characters in FF 6 are as varied as they are intriguing. In this first part of our character exploration, we discuss Terra, Locke, Celes, and Cyan along with some general thoughts on the cast itself.
STARRING (all handles from Twitter)
Aiden Moher (@adribbleofink)
Greg Sewart of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 (@sewart)
James and JJ of RetroFits on YouTube (@FitsRetro)
Julian Titus (@julian_titus) of The Stage Select Podcast (@StageSelectPod)
Mekel Kasanova (@MekelKasanova)
@Mustin
Ryan aka @GameswCoffee
Ryan Lindsay of KISS 105.3 in Ottawa (@THERyanLindsay)
Seth Sturgill (@twodollarhero) from @allnpodcast
Tim Knowles of The Leetist
Trey of the NintenDomain Podcast (@Ninten_Domain)
Yurik (@YurikArkady on TikTok)
SONG COVERS
'Forever Rachel' (FINAL FANTASY VI) | Classical Guitar Cover by John Oeth Guitar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnOIuRSSPzs
Phantom Forest & Phantom Train (Final Fantasy VI) | Classical Guitar Cover by John Oeth Guitar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj4fYb1yZLU
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With one of the largest casts in the entire franchise, Final Fantasy VI's character list can be polarizing among fans. While most everyone agrees that heavy hitters like Terra, Locke, and Sells are best in class, others believe the green room is too crowded with people like Realm, Strago, and Umaro never getting time to fully develop. In attempts to replicate the joys of the job system through individual characters, Final Fantasy 6's participant lists can feel almost watered down. So in what should be a surprise to nobody at this point, we're going to spend two episodes attempting to answer that question by diving into the characters we love and examining why we connected with them so deeply. And in some cases, not at all. Time to make our way to the airship, pick out our party and hope Gau is cool with staying behind to do… whatever is characters do when they're left to their own devices in episode 111, Final Fantasy VI, part 6, Connections to an Ensemble Cast. into individual character discussions, many of my guests had overarching thoughts. So why not start there? Let's join content creator, Mikhail Casanova, Greg Seward of the Player One podcast and Generation 16 series of videos. And finally, music creator Mustin as they set the table for this week's episode. But the one thing about Final Fantasy 6, and yes, gals are going to be included in this, there is no character That doesn't have layers of depth. Everybody matters. Even gal. Yeah. Everybody matters. Whereas you look at seven for the most part when characters get over their character arc, they don't really matter anymore. You feed looking at you, Baron kind of looking at you as well. Yeah, kind of. And we're talking OG seven. So like, yeah, not, you know. Yeah. A lot of the other final fantasies really are kind of one note with the character art and that's it. They're done. But six, I mean, aside from Suplex and the frickin train, we gotta mention that, you know, Team Sabin over here. But like everybody matters. And I was not used to that at the time. with everybody mattering in your party and you get emotionally invested and attached to everybody. You want them to succeed. Are there any characters as a young person when you play it and again, we're getting to the point now You said like 17 18 So you're definitely more aware than obviously when you were playing the first Final Fantasy or even Final Fantasy 2 What are any characters that you connected with as as a young adult? I mean, I really liked Tara as a character a lot I mean, and I think you know, we all did I also loved Celeste and Locke. I think we're probably my three favorites But that's actually another thing I think that they did a wonderful job in character development in this game is that they didn't just, it wasn't just in the narrative, it wasn't just what they said in various scenes. They controlled very differently. They all had very different abilities. Like, you know, we were used to having, you know, this is a fighter and this is a mage and this is, you know, and this is a ninja so he can throw things in Final Fantasy IV and stuff like that. But I mean, they really went for it in Six where, you know, Edgar could use those tools and Sabin actually used Street Fighter style moves in fights, which was brilliant considering how popular fighting games were at the time. So they really even went for sort of the character skill sets were extremely unique. So I liked having different characters in my party based on what their abilities were, not just because they were really powerful magic users or something like that. And going back to silliness in the ghost train scene when you could actually Piledrive, The Ghost Train at one point with Sabin. Beautiful, it was a brilliant idea. But yeah, those were probably my three favorite characters. I really loved the way Locke was written. I really loved the way he looked. He's sort of the main character I wanted to have on the screen at all times when I was navigating the world. But I loved the idea of Celes where she was the former general. Joining the rebels is a great idea as well and the tension between Edgar and Sabin as twin brothers and Sabin having given up the throne. There's a lot to go on. There's a lot to go on, you know? And then you have silly characters like Mog and Go -Go. And they're just there. Absolutely. I think as the game goes on, I've heard people say, and I agree to a point, that Final Fantasy VI may have all too many characters. Unlike a Chrono Trigger, which of course has those core seven, but those seven characters are beautifully realized and they're all very well developed. You do get for every Sabin or Cyan that has like a deeper story, you'll get like a Realm or a Strago or, and I really don't count Umaro and Go -Go because they're just, they're the extra kind of joke, not to say joke characters, but they're like the extra flavor characters. How do you think this cast is balanced? Do you think it's balanced well or do you think? What's your take on that? No, I don't I don't think they really are to be honest The ones that we really mentioned there the ones that you mentioned they're like at Locke Tara Celeste Edgar Saban Cyan They're all super important I When you get you're sort of getting further down the list at that point then like you said you do get to the throwaway characters, but Also, I don't know that you want them all to be super important at that point, especially in a game where you're swapping, you actually control which characters are in your party at some point, right? I think you do, am I misremembering that? As you get later into the game, you actually control which characters are in your party. So I think they definitely wanted to be careful of not overdoing it. It's like, well, I don't want to have anyone out of my party right now. Where we had come off Final Fantasy IV in North America where characters were in your party because they were part of the story and they belonged there at that moment. They were giving you a level of freedom that we hadn't had in these games since they'd gone in a much more narrative structure. And even when you look at the games that didn't come here, now I can't speak for Final Fantasy V, but Final Fantasy II was very character driven as well. but it was the same thing. You had the three core characters, and then you had characters that came in and out of the story, and then they would disappear after you were kind of done with their narrative arc. I appreciated what they tried with Final Fantasy VI. I think it did make the characters a little less important once you got past sort of the core five or six of them, but I don't think it hurt the game. made earlier about how Final Fantasy VI, I guess in particular, helped shape some of your personality. I'd love for you to expand on that if you could. I think about the characters and how much I reference them, maybe internally when dealing with things. Any time someone says, wait to me. I say, wait, he says, do I look like a waiter? Cause that's exactly what Kefka says to Sabin. And I just, I just do that all the time and thinking about being frustrated with some kind of technology. I think about Sian a lot because he was an old man with the ponytail. And my ponytail has kind of been coming back despite much to my chagrin. I'm trying to get a haircut, but it's hard to a good hair cutter. But I think about that, like his frustration with machines and how old he is and how old I'm getting. It's getting to be closer to that because they have ages and last names and stuff. and, And like with the cats, the cats come at me and sometimes I just, I go back at them. Gowl. Gowl. Like, mean, there's, there's just, there's just, I carry all of them with me and, they come out and in some, in some ways, sometimes, I've never, I've just never had something so strong, even with Chrono Trigger, which maybe arguably I've played more, but I don't know. There's something about this cast and crew and the music is always following me everywhere I go in the shower. I'm always whistling Go -Go's theme. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, man. There's a lot of this stuff in the love idea with Terra. I am good at a lot of things. I'm good with talking to people. But sometimes I just have moments where I just don't really understand. I don't understand how people work and how humans are. So I kind of identify with that and the protectiveness of Strago and over the little grandkid and... You know, the Celeste and Locke story. Locke's a little sus. He's pining over this half dead chick and then like he's super like, I'm going to take care of you. Like, yeah, I don't know you, dude. So he's not the best character and he's got my least favorite theme. But I like. The dynamic of Edgar and Sabin, it's something I wish that I had with my brother. And I guess I kind of did in that I ended up taking up the role of the leader and then I didn't want to. And I love the idea that double sided coin and I do like setsters carefree, like, you know, what do I have to lose with my life? And that was free. Life is in your hands, ante up. So I, everybody, you know, I'm into it, you know, even Umaro, like if I don't eat, I will, I will Umaro out. And I love how Mog is just, you know, silly and cute. And, you know, I can be that way in the right. The courageous, the courageous, right? And you want to get the job done. Yeah. But when I dance, I usually fall on my face. So identify with that. Since we spent the entire last episode talking about Terra, let's keep that conversation rolling by asking others thoughts about our favorite half human, half Esper. Starting us off is Ryan, AKA Games with Coffee, followed by Greg Seward, then James and JJ of Retrofits on YouTube, and finally Seth of the All N Media Network. So obviously Final Fantasy VI full of memorable characters. You already mentioned Terra, you already mentioned Celus. What are some characters that you think you connected with when you first played it when you were 16? man, definitely Tara. Tara? Definitely Tara. What about Tara did you connect with? Just the fact that she was just so alone and she was just used as a tool rather than being appreciated for her own individuality. You know, that really got to me. I could really feel for her plight because nobody wants to live their life as a tool. I mean, I can go into the same thing about Final Fantasy 16 and that, but we're not going to go into spoilers on that because there's a lot of similarities between 16 and 6, but we're talking about 6 right now. And it's just the fact that we watched Tara's journey go from being... mindless slave, mindless tool for the Empire to just discovering who she is as a person and what she's willing to do and what she's willing to give up to protect the people around her. Like, she is half -esper, so she event - again, spoilers for the end of the game, she loses her esper, she loses like her unique esper powers, but she still continues on because she has people back. I forgot what the village is called now. It's off the top. It's my tongue, but I don't remember. But yes. Yeah. Yeah. Mobile is mobile. She's got people back there that she cares about that she will be willing to protect, like lay down her life for. And it's just something I really appreciated about her. I think that's an interesting way. It's she grows a lot in the everyone. Well, most of the characters grow. At least a little bit. Everyone grows at least a little bit. Even Gao, who I don't like. I find Gao very annoying. Yeah, I actually like Gao. I'm not gonna That's fair. It's dear to your life. Yeah, I do. It's fine. Everyone grows a little bit, but Terra, of course, and your Locke and Celos, and even Cyan to a certain extent, they all have these really interesting growth arcs. And I think Terra, learning to understand who she is and what she is, right? and how to deal with that I think is a really interesting bit of storytelling and an interesting bit of just character work, right? And I think it makes her very endearing. Especially when you first meet Tara, she's not of her own will. She's got a stage cap on her head and she is not of her own will. And it puts you as a player in the shoes of somebody controlling someone that's not of their own will. And it's a very, I think, interesting dynamic. Yeah, in thinking about it too psychologically, it's very scary because you can You you can't really think of what? How am gonna put this? Losing your free will you don't really think about how that feels Until you see through another through another person's eyes Right in the beginning of the game. We see that through Tara's eyes. She has no agency. She has no will of her own Again, she's a mindless slave and you're kind of seeing that through her perspective that she's basically an empty shell until that slave crown is removed and she kind of regains, like slowly regains her will and her sense of self and her sense of just being who she is. Like slowly that just kind of comes back to her, but that is just a journey and a half for her to undertake. It's, it's, again, it's, it's, it's a really scary thought. I'm like thinking to myself, what would, what would, how would I handle losing my own free will? Basically my mind going blank and being controlled, my body being controlled by another. And then just waking up and realizing that I have all this blood on my hands. How am I going to process all this? Yeah, you know, it is scary when you think about it in that way. And this way of, yeah, how do I, what do I do with this? Like how much do I still have? How much recollection do I have? Like all those questions have to be constantly rolling through your mind, right? And it is a pretty tense situation. Yeah, it is. But what about small moments were there any small moments you remember really hitting you hard as you we played it? Pophas yes, so because there's so many grace notes in this game. Yeah, really lovely. There are so many that's just it There's so many big moments. I do like I really did like the characterization of Tara right from the start I loved Her sort of inner struggle, you know, I mean Amnesia is such a an overly abused trope in not just video games, but in everything. so it's like, God, here it is. We have another main character that doesn't know who she is. But putting her in the situation where she was unwillingly working for the empire right from the start, as opposed to Celeste, who was willingly working for the empire, I really sort of liked her her struggle and not knowing who she is and then finding out how powerful she really was. It's a really nice character arc. so I don't know if you would call that small moments because at one point she just becomes like this all powerful being that's screaming around the sky and stuff like that. But she was full Esper. Yeah. Yeah. She's Jean Grey. like, yeah, still there are all those moments like. even early on when you're in Edgar's castle, and she's learned about the returners and learned that she's now fallen in with them, she's still questioning whether or not she should. And the game does a great job, and they do this with lot of the characters, it does a great job of leaving you alone with her as the player, as the viewer, and letting her have her inner thoughts and and explain those a little bit and really see her struggle. I don't know, there was just always something really nice about the way she was handled that I still like. Playing it even this week, was like, yeah, I'd kind of forgotten about it a little bit, but she really struggles because even knowing, we know as viewers, or we're being asked to know that the Imperials are evil. They're just out for power and they're awful people, but she's even though, they'd enslaved her at one point, she's still asking that question, which I like. I like that she doesn't just take everyone at face value and say, well, they say they're the good guys, so they must be the good guys. Yeah. It feels like a natural thing. It feels very natural and in character as someone who... It feels like something someone would do if they were in that real situation. They wouldn't just accept it, which is a really brave choice as well from a gameplay perspective because you have to play as these characters. and the game is very smart and that you only play with Tara for a little bit in the beginning. A lot of times in beginning, she's laid up in bed or you're not playing as her because again, the game is trying, I think, to tell you she's still not sure if she wants to even join up yet. She's still not sure. And again, it's a really good opportunity to have this character, a lot of intrigue. And it's helpful too, just laying out the world because if have Amnesia, they don't know who the Returners are, they don't know the Empire. Do that for the audience. And I felt like games at that point, we weren't quite so subversive as to put you in a position where you play for like 20 hours and find out, wait, we're the bad guys. But there's an element of that there that, know, again, as a player, I had already accepted it. The Imperial's bad, Rebel's good. I mean, this is Star Wars, sure. Yeah. But to have a character that was questioning it was a nice change of pace, for sure. Looking back on it, I think there might have been that element even in my head at that point. It's like, wait, well, if she's not sure, maybe I shouldn't be. But looking back on it, I don't think we had any games that were doing anything like that back then that were really messing with the player's perception of what was going on around them. You're pretty much being spoon -fed the truth as far as what's the proper phrase for it? not an uncertain narrator, but it's a style of story. An unreliable narrator. You know, we've seen that in years following, but we weren't really seeing that back then. That's a point. That's a really good point. You're right. It kind of builds up that who do I trust kind of situation. Tara actually has a similar kind of storyline, especially in the beginning, where it's like... But it's sort of the opposite. Like everybody has this revering kind of point of view of her, you know, because she's inherently so powerful as somebody who has, you know, innate magic skill. And that causes her to be like, well, is that the only thing that matters? Because, you know, what does that mean? for me, what does that mean for you? What does that mean for the world if I am not as good a person as I think I am or want to be? know, like big, giant, world -affecting stuff. And really, as far as storyline goes, that's what made Final Fantasy VI great is like it had a lot going on plot -wise because it was kind of like... It was kind of like the tracks at a freight yard because party members would split off and have their own like multi -hour adventures. Sure. And you know, there would be like four simultaneous stories going on at once that you would just flip between, you know, I mean, we've all suplexed the Doom train. Gotta do it. We all did it. Gotta do it. It's very satisfying. it's like right after that, then, I believe that's when it cuts back to the Empire. infiltration that Terra's doing with or no, damn, my story's like all mixed up. I think she actually did that with Sabin so it couldn't have possibly been right after. Alright, that's good point, But still, there's a heavy they steal the armors. Yeah, right, there's like a heavy moment that proceeds that, yeah, or goes after that. on the characters of Final Fantasy 6 real quick. There's a lot of them, obviously. Do you have any characters that you identified with as a kid when you were playing with it and playing it and even now as an adult when you think back on those characters? Again, not so much your favorite, but the ones that you experienced and said, yeah, I get that. I get where they're coming from. Yeah, think we talked a little bit in the Majora's Mask. episodes about like the sort of feeling of like the lack of control or identity that maybe you feel when you're a kid. I think Tara kind of taps into that quite a bit. you know, I think I sort of always, you know, related to that character quite a lot. In fact, she's one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters just in general. And when I the latest theater rhythm game. She's like my profile picture on there. Like I've always loved that character. So that's a big one for me. I mean, you know, this is such a great cast of characters. They're all really strong. I always had like a, you know, I always had like a great relationship with my grandfather, which I think I've always I've also talked about on the show. And so I was I was, you know, I really resonated with the the sort of Strago and Realm, you know, relationship and even like the Celeste and Sid, you know, sort of relationship too. definitely. Yeah, definitely the caretaker almost to a certain extent. Yeah, big time. Interesting. And kind of that familial connection definitely with Strago and Realm and almost like a pseudo -familial. She actually, I believe, is... Does she call him father after a while? I forget. I think so. Yeah, I they're actually like, I don't even think they're actually like blood. I don't think so. I think it's more of just we're the only two people. We may be the last two surviving people on the planet. Exactly. And it's almost like a term of endearment at that. If we were to put the cast of Final Fantasy VI on a tier list, you'd be hard pressed to find a single number one among them. Several 1A's, 1B's, et cetera, but not a clear cut Cloud or a clear cut Cecil. Our next topic of conversation, Locke, falls squarely in that category. To talk up our favorite thief, I mean, Treasure Hunter. is James and JJ followed by Mikel and then finally Trey of the Nintendo main podcast. For me, it was Locke. Yeah. Fair, fair. I mean, he, because a lot of Final Fantasy, a lot of JRPGs that we've, we've actually started noticing more when we started playing them for the show, like as a sort of more analytical stance, because, you know, we're not just like displaying the game for all to see like we're a part of it like having this conversation and a lot of games pull kind of heavily from Star Wars sure like especially like JRPGs like to do this a lot and Locke is very much like the Han Solo character you know he meets like General Celeste trapped in the prison and then he's like, well, no matter what happens, I'm going to be the dashing hero and save this girl. But you know, but he's also like the thief. He's that's his whole skill set is like getting in, stealing stuff, sneaking about, like not necessarily being a stand up, you know, knight of a character. but I mean, that's that's a classic character trope going all the way back to like John Campbell or God, did I actually just goof that name super hard. The Hero's Journey. The Hero's Journey to the Cable, yeah. Joseph Campbell. Close enough, say something that's fine. Yeah, the thief with the heart of gold. That's the classic trope character. Yeah, he's chaotic good. He's not up too good, but he is doing good. Right. And we do stormtrooper jokes with almost every game that has an empire or a... the evil ogre war arcing organization. There they are. Probably just another drill. Love it. Absolutely love it. Now that's a really good point on Locke. Locke's an interesting character. He's one I never used a ton mechanically. He's great early on, but then for me, the thief stuff kind of wears away, but his arc is really interesting and good. He's got a very, he starts in, way he ends up towards the end of the game is really, Interesting and how he kind of goes to that grieving process and and learns to love again, you know and that sort of thing I think it's really really strong stuff. Yeah Yeah, I mean the whole quest to find Phoenix just so that he can revive the love of his life and Then have the very heart -wrenching You know gut punch kind of moment where she's like, I understand that you did all this for me, but Phoenix can't just bring me back to life. It just allows me to have this moment with you. Like you have to move on. You've been trapped in this for so long, you can't do this or you'll be just like me right now. So powerful. Yeah, it was so mind blowing in that moment that you could have that kind of lesson about loss, grief, and the whole grieving process and then, what you have to do after in a game that you could play with like your your seven -year-old brother or like your seven -year -old kid or something like that you know because it wasn't the language wasn't too heavy it was very clear and concise like the words that they were using and it wasn't like a vocabulary that was above like you know an elementary school level or anything like that it was very accessible and stuff like that was peppered all throughout Final Fantasy 6 just because of the language that they used. absolutely. really, really well done. I'm just trying to think back to all the characters that I connected with. I really dug Locke, and I love Locke and Celes's, and I said Celes. And again, on this podcast, can pronounce them however you want. I don't care. Celes, Cels, Celis, I don't know. I don't care. is fluid. What are we supposed to... I've always said Celes, but what is it I've always said Cels. I've always said Celes, but I've heard Cels. I always say sell us. That's how I've always pronounced it. But so it's sell us and and and lock and their relationship and how natural that grows. For me as a kid, it was probably one of those first times where I saw a relationship grow and understood it not in a way in a romantic way, because I was very much a late bloomer when it came to that sort of thing. But as like a connection thing, it was always very interesting to me the way they kind of interacted. And now as an adult, when I watch it, I think it's Wonderful. Their arc is so good and interesting and how they kind of grow together and how adult their relationship is. They have very adult relationship. There's grief. They both got stuff going on. They both have baggage. They both have to figure out their baggage and they figured out together and they grow together. It's such an adult relationship. It's not a fantasy thing. It's very, very strong. I was always a big Locke fan. Cool, man. So speaking of characters, when you were playing it, were there any characters that you identified with and really kind of connected to on a more personal basis? It's a huge cast in Final Fantasy six. And I think for most part, pretty well balanced. Any anything, any characters you identified with when you were playing it? I mean, yeah, I like that there was that there's not really there's like there's like 30 main characters in that. Yeah, that's I really liked. Yeah. I the I don't know it was you know I I really fell for the the lock Sally's You know relationship thing to the point that like you know as you do when you're a kid You know there's a girl I had a crush on so I like Changed the names to like my name and then her name and all that on that because they you know had their little lovey -dovey stuff so I did that so I guess I Kind of had a connection in that because there was a love story in the game I guess I hadn't played too many games that had love stories like that. I was like yeah if I do that, that's like my real That's like my dream coming to reality or whatever in this video game. You know, it's like, that's formative. Yeah, that's that's a that's a formative thing, right? And that's I can totally see that that I mean, never I never officially dated this person. So maybe so it's kind of more creepy than you think. No, no, no. Now, if you if you did it when you were like 30, then yeah, I would be like, yeah, yeah. And you're 14. Of course, that's fine. That's totally fine behavior. I totally could see that. I was a late bloomer when it came to all that stuff, so I wasn't really even thinking in that mode. When I was playing Final Fantasy, fast forward maybe two years probably, but yeah, that era I wasn't wasn't quite in that mode. But yeah, dude, that's that's really interesting and fun for sure. So definitely lock and sell us relationship is is really interesting and a very good one. Like it's got a really cool arc. It definitely has a lot of weight to it for sure. Yeah, I I didn't know how much I didn't. realize how complicated there was their relationship wasn't too much later. But yeah, you know, when I was I was like, yeah, they're you know, they're all lovey dovey. That's that's cute. Yeah. But but complicated is a great way of putting it. I think it really does. When you look at it now with with with older eyes, it definitely has a lot more tension to it. And there's a lot more at stake. Yeah, it's a I definitely agree. It's definitely one of those. It's a really interesting relationship. It is once again time to say thank you to our wonderful patrons, starting with Terry Kinnair, Games with Coffee, BT Gobbles, Julian of the Stage Select Podcast, Seth Sergel of All In Media, Tim formally of the Lidist, the Let's Play Princess, Greg Seward of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 series of videos, Philip Becker, and finally the one and only Fabulous Pete Harney. If you would like to join these amazing human beings in donating your hard -earned funds to this podcast, by all means go to patreon .com forward slash a gamer looks at 44 zero, check out the tiers and sign up today. And if not, no worries, a rating review or even telling a friend about this series is always greatly appreciated. Thanks so much. And let's jump back into the episode. Speaking of Celus, you can't have a Final Fantasy VI conversation without discussing the general turned rebel. Now, just like in the World of Ruin episode, we can't talk about Celus without broaching some touchy subjects like suicide and mental health, so trigger warning for this section. If you'd like to skip it, please make use of the chapters on the feed or skip ahead approximately 18 to 19 minutes. Starting this section off is journalist Aiden Moore followed by Mikkel, then followed by cosplayer Yurik and concluding with Seth of All N Media. You did mention Cell's is your probably favorite though. So I'm, sounds like you do have a fondness. What about Cell's? Yeah, I think just like, I mean, this was at a time like Final Fantasy six, but also like the books I was reading and stuff, just the idea of like a really capable. strong woman and like, you know, strong female character comes with a lot of baggage, but like literally like a strong character, like strong in combat, like has high levels of authority within the empire. But even that doesn't protect her from being, you know, like kidnapped and tortured and the weight that she carries and the way that she is able to kind of gather herself and set herself. back on a path towards redemption that then is mirrored in her quest to draw all the adventuring party together in the second half, where she says, like, she could give up. There's so many points where Seles could give up, but she never does, right? Instead, she always pushes forward. And she's the one that brings that together. and stays on that path towards sort of redemption. And I think that that always stuck with me. And to see, you know, I think even back when I was a kid who didn't like unicorns, you know, a boy who didn't like unicorns and princesses, seeing a woman do that, I think was really powerful and impactful because I'd never seen anything. Very cool. Very cool. I love that. like I sell this was one of the ones I appreciated more as I got older. I think another one I appreciated. I was always like I always like Sabin or seven or however. We have pronunciation. That just say pronunciation? Pronunciation, not my strong suit, clearly. But Iselas is someone, the reluctant, the real, someone who, she really does grow. Her arc in the entire game is one of the best arcs in the game, in my opinion. And her growth as a character and her realization. of everything she's doing is wrong and she's been working for the wrong side and all that growth she undergoes is so interesting and good. And unfortunately when I was younger, I never played as her a lot. So when I hit the world of Ruin, and it's just me and her, and she's not leveled all that well, I'm like, boy, I'm struggling because I did not put enough time into cells to make that happen. of losing even though the language of game says you won is was wild and totally off-putting. And then of course it leads into that amazing moment with Selis on that solitary island. don't know. Sid died. know the game gives you no clue on how to keep that guy alive. You're just feeding him fish. you figure that out, rotten fish, good fish, you don't realize. And there's such a hopelessness to it. Like it really puts you in, I don't know, what was your reaction to that moment? That whole solitary island moment? I was panicking because I had never gotten to a point in a game where the overshadowing feeling of dread was just there. And at the time we weren't really used to like multiple endings in gaming, like, or your choices affecting the outcome. So like literally I'm racing through my head trying to figure out, Hey, what did I do to get this result? How did I get to this point? How do I keep sit alive? How do I do this? And it's like that sense of urgency. I had never experienced that before. Like that whole thing was just such, like I said, and it subverted my expectations. So I'm there just like panicking. I'm just like, okay, I got to do this. Did I get the right fish? Did get this? What am I going to do? Where are the other returners? What was Kefka up to? Are we going to fight him? How, what hope? And that's the thing too. When he, when he destroyed the world, he became a deity. Your sense of hope that you could even approach fighting him was nonexistent. Gone. Yeah. It's gone. You, you have one character. If you're my brother, you never level that character. So now you're soft locked in the game. It's literally what happened when he played it of the era. He never really leveled Celus too much. And now that's the only character he had. couldn't walk around the overworld. He couldn't make it to the next town. He soft locked himself in the game because he just couldn't do it. I'm sure there's a way of doing it, but he just didn't know how to do it. that moment too, and that moment of when Celus goes to, has that moment of desperation where she literally attempts to commit suicide. Where she literally attempts that. Again, another moment in games I'll never forget. As a kid, I had struggled with suicidal thoughts when I was that age, when I was 14. And I had for a while. So to see that on screen was very, very powerful for me. It was one of those moments where it was seeing something I had thought about and seeing it portrayed in a way that was respectful of them. And this is me thinking back on a 14 year old's brain. I'm sure that's not what I was thought at the time. But I'm just trying to put myself in that moment where it was, wow, this is a moment where I kind of saw myself on screen and it was extraordinary. It was one of those moments that really shook me. Yeah, and you feel hopeless. You walk around there, you're by yourself, you walk off that continent. At the island, rather, and you are just alone and you better figure it out. So it's it's it's one the easily one of the most powerful moments of the game I've experienced in my in my life. I mean, I can I can fully relate to that, too, because back at the time, when I was playing that and when I played it again, I think more so when I played it again on a PlayStation one. You know, that was a rough time for myself and my family because we came in really hard times and we ended up having to move from a really nice neighborhood in the house that, you know, my grandmother had bought for my mom to move into the ghetto and just, you know, gunshots. It was really bad. Wow. Really bad. And, you know, I used to get beat up a lot. Just trying to go to the library, go to the bus stop. was constantly beat up. So, and you know, siblings that weren't really supportive. It was always, you know, you had a man up, be stronger, blah, blah, blah. You know, what are you doing? Why are you just letting them do that? You're bigger than he's right. I had that sense of helplessness and I remember playing through six again at the time. And when I got to that point, I'm like, I understand how she feels. There's no hope around you. And that's a very real feeling. And I think, as a case study on observing depression and mental health, Final Fantasy 6 is one of the greatest pieces of gaming art to showcase it in a very mature way. Everybody's dealing with something. Everybody. Yeah, No, I agree. I And I think it's, again, remarkable that this is a 16 -bit game on a, you know, 1994 Super Nintendo, and it's portraying those emotions so beautifully and so honestly. And in a way that still resonates now, you are you watching now? And I can still understand what's going through her head and not have to self -insert that much. It's really just powerful. We got serious there for a minute. Let's go to something which I'm cool with. I'm cool with that, as far as bigger moments, though, I would love to hear what your take or how you felt if you can remember when your first playthrough how you felt during the the cellist moment or cells again. Pronunciation is a thing. Yeah, this the cellist moment where she's on that solitary island. Yeah, I'm like. as initially like the first time I did that, I didn't know the difference between the fish. I didn't know that that was going to be a thing that mattered. So. spoilers, I guess you know in a second here. then this is full spoiler cast Just you know, so we spoil away. This is well, not yet 100 % said died. I did not mean to did not know what I did wrong Didn't didn't know and I was like man. That's why like that sucks like he's like that was straight -up death like on screen like we just we saw him just like die and it was handled in like a really kind of somber way like Final Fantasy has done that quite a bit though. Like you have like other characters who have like in previous games and then With with Celeste on the cliff afterwards as a kid. I didn't understand what was going on same I do now and Still think that was like really Yeah I know, I've tried about this with friends before that all the characters kind of are dealing with loss a different way. Yep. Like in World of Ruin, Celeste is like a very like obvious one. Terra goes to help like whoever she can. Locke is trying to help one person that he cares about. And you can go down the list all the way down to Kefka who just has like the ultimate nihilistic view of this. There's no point because everything's gonna be ash and This is a long answer to the question. Keep going. No, keep going. This is great Yeah, and so like because you can go through every character and kind of see this and then yeah, Kefka's is just the ultimate I can't remember like his quote, but he says like why do people keep rebuilding things when they just know they're gonna be destroyed? And when you look at all these kind of quotes like side by side, it's like, yeah, this is what the end game is, is all these people have, were confronting losses in their own unique way. They've all come together to say like, you're wrong to Kefka. That you don't have to have this kind of like outlook anymore. And then that's when the fight starts. Because he even says like, sound like chapters from a self -help book. That's right. Yeah, that right. That theme of loss and rebuilding is so beautifully expressed and which makes the world of Ruin. I remember playing again as a kid. would always I would always play. course, I played for the full in full, but in subsequent playthroughs when I was younger by teenager, I remember myself not continuing in the world of Ruin because it felt so sad. Even the music changes and music changes. somber and I remember thinking again as a 17 year old probably in high school like I don't want to be here. Yeah. So I would go back and just play like the fun stuff like the action movie stuff because the first half of that game is like an action movie. It's something it's just going you're just. Yeah. You jump off the yeah you jump off the castle onto the chocobos. It's like a Western. You're jumping off the train onto the horse right. Yeah. You're literally like a Western and the thing is moves and then once you hit the world of ruin it's stops. It just reaches to a halt. And I appreciate that change now more as an adult. But when I was like a teenager, didn't remember. I remember lots of like, all right, now I'm in the world of ruin. This isn't the fun adventure I want anymore. And again, as I played in subsequent days, I relish that. I relish that slowdown. It's a totally different experience. It's getting the band back together and rebuilding because life is worth rebuilding inherently, which is what Kefka never understands. Exactly, yeah, and like that's the thing is we never really know much about Kefka like I know Mamatera told me that there's a difference in his backstory in the Japanese version that he was not like a general he's just some like some wannabe which makes again him being a lac even funnier. Yeah. But we don't really know anything like about him so we don't know what his deal with loss is and I think it's better if you don't know I think it's just vague like maybe he doesn't have anything maybe he's just kind of sucky and that's that's it. I mean, I feel like I've you remiss in talking about Final Fantasy six without talking about that famous scene when she's trying to her her her grandfather her grandfather always sit alive and and like you said I don't know any kid who figured it out the first time I had no idea no and the game doesn't tell you it doesn't tutorialize and one very quick thing about that whole part of the game, the twist is, and I've mentioned this to other people, so I'll be repeating myself for the editor who'll be putting this, cutting this up, I know. What I love about it is according to the language of games, you win. Like you do all the things correct. You beat the big boss, you get out before the timer ends, maybe you save Shadow? I don't know. I didn't the first time, but maybe if you have like Nintendo power, you know to save Shadow or you heard from a friend. and nothing you do matters. And I remember distinctly when the world is going to hell and all of a sudden you're alone on this island with a character I have not leveled very well. I didn't spend a lot of time with Selis. was just wasn't one of my main characters feeling I have to play this again. Like I can't save the game because what did I do wrong? I did everything right and it didn't matter. And that is so powerful. It's such a powerful emotion for a game to deliver in twisting that on its head, like subverting that expectation. Because again, according to the language of games, I won. Yay. The monster disappeared. Atmo weapon died. Great. I beat the counter. But it didn't matter. Can you think back to how you felt when Salas has that moment of pure despair? my gosh, yeah. I want to be careful with the language obviously because... But the moment of pure despair is what I'll label it as. I don't think I quite understood. Even as a 14 year old. I just don't think I got it. Yeah. I don't think I got it. I don't think I did either. When I first saw it think I was a little too young to really grasp exactly... why it was, why she was doing what she was doing. And I don't even think it really registered, know, going back and replaying the game and like seeing that scene and watching that scene again, like, it's really, it's a really beautiful scene. And you can totally sympathize with her in that moment. I mean, everything that she cared about is gone. And she feels completely hopeless and she feels like that's kind of her her last resort. I mean, like, you know, in her view, it's like, cool, like, Lock's dead, Sid's dead, you know. Yeah. And and and like she she does what she does. And and like you even see like her tears like following her in the air as she's sort of falling. It's like heartbreaking. But again, when I'm seeing this as a kid, I think it's completely washing over me. And, know, I don't think I understood the gravity of it, especially because like, you know, it is not successful and she wakes up on the beach, she sees like Locke's bandana on like a bird, think, and that that gives her sort of the drive to like keep fighting and like, like, like now I have like, actually, there is something there is sort of more for me to live for. And yeah, I don't think I quite got it then. at least like the gravity of what it was she was doing, but I remember thinking it was a very pretty scene. The game's just got so many great pretty scenes. The final character for this episode is probably one of the most personally pertinent. As a kid, I wanted to be a tough guy with street fighter moves or a clever Han Solo type rogue. These days, I just want to be a good dad. And the story of Cyan resonates deep with me and with so many of my guests. To start off this section, let's join Aiden followed by Coffee, And finally, Julian of the Stage Select podcast. In Final Fantasy VI, which character do you think you most closely identify with? It's a large cast. That's why I asked that question for Final Fantasy VI, because there's lots of options. Who do you think, if you think about that cast, not so much your favorite, right? Because that's a little... Who would you say that you identify with or connect with the closest? mean, Selis is my favorite, but I don't really identify with her. I think she's fascinating. Gosh, these days I feel like Strago, like as a dad. I'm just sort of chasing. Yeah, chasing realm around. Chasing realm around. know, are my better days behind me? Possibly. But I mean, yeah, that's an interesting question as well. think that, it's so hard to nail it down because I feel like, again, like as a dad and as, you know, like having my own family and stuff and being, you know, 40 now, I think. Cyan's story is also really fascinating and the grief that he feels over the loss of his family. I never really liked him as a character as a kid, but now I play and I'm like, man, like that guy has gone through something, right? And I understand him and I think there's a depth to him that not necessarily all the other characters have. And so like, you know, the way that I connect to the characters is different. Yeah. And I mean, like Edgar, like, I don't know, I'm also like a really kind of reluctant person when it comes to like responsibility to like others, you know, like outside of like my own sort of like personal space. so like, yeah, it's, man, it's so hard. think Cyan is an interesting one because of age too, right? You're 40, I'm 43. And that's the age of that character in the game. So that makes sense to me. And and Edgar, yeah. And responsibility. He, he has. A lot of responsibility and a lot of bad stuff happens under his watch too. It's not... Yeah, he fails. He's time. Completely. That's something that I think as a parent, I really worry about. I really worry about failing my family, my kids, my wife, and then our larger community. You want to, as a parent, carry everything and protect everybody, but that's not possible. We're only stronger together. No one person can carry that. yeah, never, you know, before recording this, I never would have thought I would pick Siam, but I do think it was lot. What other characters did you feel like you really connected with in Final Fantasy VI? Let's see, mean in certain ways I can I feel like I could connect with almost every character except for Morrow. I really don't understand him He is an enigma. He's an enigma. I just you can't I don't think you're I don't think you're supposed to understand him You just he is just he just is he just is yeah basically I could really feel for Cyan and his I mean now as an adult now with my with Kids of my own I can I can really resonate with with science story how he loses everything and just a one instant and then having to just see his family just on that phantom train when he wants to join them, but he can't because he still has life to live and that was really that's really just really disheartening to see that, you know Interesting you say disheartening. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. Why maybe that's not the word. Maybe that's a Maybe I might be the wrong word, but it's just he knows he wants to be with them, right? Like that's all he wants. He just wants his family back. He wants his honor back. Like he let down the kingdom. He let down his family because they got all they all got poisoned by Kefka's machinations, right? And he couldn't do anything about it. And I guess he just feels so, so much regret. And it's like, if I could, if I only could have done something to prevent this, you know, it's like I asked the word. Yeah. Disheartening is kind of the word for it. It's like you can't help. You can't help but feel for his, for his situation that man, if I only could have done something different, none of these people would have died under my watch. It's a huge sort of burden that he wears and he has to wear that he, and he feels like he has to, has to hold on to it. And of course, as we go through his story, learns he doesn't have to hold on to all that like you don't have to exactly and that's what's really beautiful about cyan i agree with you i never liked cyan as a kid but nowadays i'm like you know we're dads right we're in dad mode like we totally feel that like responsibility that weight sometimes of expectations and i think that's that's a challenging part of the whole the whole picture I probably feel a stronger connection to cyan because of the tragedy having been through some tragedy myself now sure and I've seen, especially on No One Can Know About This, but some pushback to the way that Cyan handles things with the letter writing girl in the world of Ruin. They kind of see it as a more sinister thing. Where I, even as a kid, I saw it as someone who had been through a really bad time. who is trying to help somebody else through, like trying to protect somebody else from those feelings, which not the right way to go about it, right? But I always got the reasoning behind what he did. looking back now, as an adult and thinking about his story, it's the type of thing that you don't get past. Right. And, they don't really like, that's the thing is, is that he doesn't really get past it. He finally comes to terms with it, in, the world of ruin. If you go through the dreamscape, it is a thing that affects him for his entire time in the game, which you still don't often see that in RPGs. Like people bounce back from like their entire, like, village being destroyed surprisingly quickly in most RPGs. You my parents were brutally slaughtered by so -and -so. Like, I'm mad about it. but I'm not gonna be broken up about it for very long because I don't, you know, don't wanna show that. And also when you're roleplaying as a character, you don't wanna be in that character like that. wanna, players want to be, want to roleplay as the confident, strong character generally. And Cyan always, I'm a Cyan fan as well, as an adult as well, for a lot of those same reasons. And I always liken him, he always has this weight about him. And I remember as a kid not playing as him very much, cause he was never all that fun. And now as an adult, when I think about it, it's like, no, he's not that fun because he's dealt with so much tragedy in his life. He's not, as we all know, and anyone who's dealt with anything tragic, this is everyone has different experiences. When you have deal with something tragic, you don't forget about it. You just learn to deal with it. Like you learn to live with how you learn how to carry that weight. The weight doesn't go away. It doesn't all of a sudden disappear. You weigh or you. carry it so much that eventually you don't feel the weight of it anymore, but you know it's still there, right? And that's kind of, think, how grief works. And I think Cyan is, it's a beautiful visual representation of him having that grief. So at the end, when you're going through that dreamscape and he's really kind of wrestling with this, again, he's not free of it, but he's come to grips with it. The weight of that is still there, but he's now bearing it better. And I think that's all people can do when you have tragedy. And again, in a 16 -bit role -playing game on the Super Nintendo in 1995, it's like, how, or four, rather, how, how, how is, it's a miracle. It's so amazing, right? And like all the stuff in the world of Ruin is so oppressively dark, but in a way that still kind of instills you with a bit of hope, like... But you know, like I always talk about like the overworld music in the world of ruin. It's like, it's a funeral dirge. Like straight up, up until you get the airship. Once you get the airship, you know, that's when you get that note of hope. But it's gonna be a few hours before you have that hint of hope. you know, and every town that you go to just seems like worse than the last one, right? to the point that you come across one person in an inn who's like, man, I miss the good old days when the Empire was oppressing us. Yeah. Yeah. We thought it couldn't get worse, but now we have this maniacal deity shooting laser beams at us. Because why not? Because he's got none of better to do. Finishing up the episode is James and JJ followed by Kiss 105 .3 in Ottawa personality Ryan Lindsay and concluding with Tim Knowles, formerly of the Littest. There's some standout moments to you as you kind of think back through the games when you're playing it. And when I say standout moments, we all remember the giant ones, right? We talked about cellists, remember the opera house. Were there any small moments in that game that you remember impacting you or just causing you to take a say? You guys are both smiling. It's like I think the answer is yes. This is fun. Yeah, with people. Yeah. Well, no, I mean. less of a moment that exists in the game naturally. Because we don't just have our voices for the characters. Sometimes we do try to play it straight and sometimes it really is more about like, everybody knows this game, we're gonna be silly and have fun with it and everybody's gonna laugh while it's still this big fun adventure. I made the mistake of Cyan's introduction, you know, is a really great moment because it's like the whole castle is under siege and it's like, he comes out as like the noble samurai warrior and he's going to stand alone against the Empire. But his the first line doesn't have any kind of name or any indication of who he is. It just says wait. And the first thing that came to my mind was Dr. Henry Killinger from the Venture Brothers. I was just like, And he just comes down the stairs and I'm like, well, I can't. I'm committed now. I can't stop now. And then he became Dr. Henry Killinger. And we had previously named Edgar and Sabin as Chad and Brad. And I didn't remember. as much while we were doing this. had been a few years since I played, but I forgot that Sabin and Cyan have like a whole adventure, like a whole side adventure just together. So it became Dr. Henry Killinger and his magic murder Brad. That is so bizarre and good. And I am all about this reimagining. Reimagining of the classic Vagabase. Like that's funny. You just got roped into a voice because you were not aware. You're like, no, but you had to know that that was it. You signed that voice. That's commitment. That's what we're all about. moments though in these little emotional parts and like as much as Cyan is One of the least useful characters in gaming history I had a friend who was so madly in love with him that same buddy Neil who I played it at his place as well Hated him personally not a fan of Cyan, but his story is so tragic and they Why why do they have to show it to you? That's the worst part You're crushing my soul For what? are you crushing my soul? Brutal and I didn't quite get it when I was a kid I did I never really you know sign I was always like I don't really like playing as him. They don't like sore tech It's fine. Yeah, but now I play as an adult. We know what the dad with kids and I'm like, I totally get you I get you I'm with you, Cyan. I am old too. didn't hit you. The poisoning of the water, you're like, look, the water changed color. That's neat. It doesn't hit you anywhere near. Even as a teenager, you're like, meh, seems kind of evil, but whatever. As an adult, you're like, this is unforgivable! That man has a wife and a child! And it just kills you. And you see them on the train. Sorry, spoilers. You see them on the... Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're fine. And your heart doesn't break into one. It breaks into like eight. quadra swams into multiple pieces all over the place and you don't know what to do and you're like damn it just brutal that's it i can't i can't what do i do If I'm looking back and I'm really thinking about who had probably one of my favorite storylines, ones that, funny enough, think it was Sian. I don't even know if I'm saying these names right, but think it was Sian. Sian was such like this beautiful and tragic story. And as far as when it comes to who really has a vendetta against the main bad guy, it's. It's Zion, you know, it's very, it's very John Wick killed the puppy kind of thing. You feel for him the entire time, which is ironic because I never really used him much as a character. Same, same. I never really liked him as a character. And that's I have the same answer usually because Zion, because again, I have a family now and I can identify with that feeling of just murderous rage. That's why in Final Fantasy 2 slash 4, I identify with Tela. yeah. Because I am too an aging man. am an old man who's forgotten half of the things. And I could totally see that kind of like, now you need to go. I also have a penchant for calling people a spoonie bard. But yeah, Nocion is someone I think that I've definitely come to appreciate more as time goes on. I love his side story in the world of ruin. think he's the one you get Odin with him and you go on this whole journey of self-forgiveness. It's really touching and tragic and heady for a game like that. yeah, really heady and it didn't hit. I didn't even understand really what the ghost train was when I was... Yeah. know, when I was a kid, like it's silly when you think of it. It's like, this is silly. There's ghosts. And now you think about it, you're like, this is ferrying people to the afterlife. Like this is this is really on that said when he's on that train platform saying goodbye to like his love was like, whoa, OK. I'm actually tearing up a little bit thinking about it because, it's yeah, it's rough. That just about does it for this edition of A Gamer Looks at 40. Next week we're continuing the character conversation with an episode that should be about the same length with a whole different cast of people to talk about. Lots of great conversations so be sure to come back for that. And after that we finalize our run through Final Fantasy 6. It only took two months, sure no problem, with just different odds and ends that were cut from episodes that I thought were fun. This didn't fit anywhere, so it's gonna be a big ol' just goulash of topics and conversation. Thank you so much for checking out the show. Thank you to my editors, Pete, Harney, and Kev from the Discord for their work in cutting up the interviews and giving me the pieces I need to create these main shows. Thank you to my patrons once again, and thank you for being a fan and a friend and a listener of A Gamer Looks at 40. Your listenership is always greatly appreciated. And until next time, just be kind to yourselves and each other.
