A Gamer Looks At 40
An exploration of the history of video games told through the stories of the every day people who lived it. Join me along with a rotating cast of friends, family, gaming journalists, and industry types as we share personal recollections from the last thirty years of gaming, one story at a time.
A Gamer Looks At 40
Ep 123: Final Fantasy 7 (Part 5) - A Memorable, Enduring Cast
When lost in the dueling seas of Cloud and Sephiroth, it's easy to forget there's an entire cast backing them up. From the drama of Aerith to the strong-willed Barret, there's plently of gold to be mined in Final Fantasy 7's supporting players. On this episode, we share insights, personal stories, and multiple moments when our jaws hit the floor as we explore the diverse and amazing cast of Final Fantasy 7.
STARRING (all handles from Twitter)
Diana McQueen (@stormvexed on TikTok)
Eddie Varnell (@thatretrocode) of the Boss Rush Network (@BossRushNetwork)
Greg Sewart of the Player One Podcast and Generation 16 (@sewart)
Ian (@teacherbloke87)
James and JJ of RetroFits on YouTube (@FitsRetro)
Julian Titus (@julian_titus) of The Stage Select Podcast (@StageSelectPod)
Matt (@dj_stormageddon) and Geoff (@geoffmakesnoise) of the "Fun" & Games Podcast (@funandgamespod)
Mekel Kasanova (@MekelKasanova)
Michael K Hughes (@KaidanXain) of the Capes and Junk Podcast (@GamesAndJunk)
Mike of the Distorted Illuminations YouTube channel (@MadMonarch_DI)
The Lets Play Princess (@TheLPPrincess)
Ryan aka @GameswCoffee
SONG COVERS
Red XIII's Theme (Final Fantasy VII) | Classical Guitar Cover by John Oeth Guitar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FArKFnpHUw
Cid's Theme (Final Fantasy VII) | Classical Guitar Cover by John Oeth Guitar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm6ARq6Ep_k
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Last week we went all in on Cloud and Sephiroth and learned a ton about our personal histories with these two characters. But lo and behold there's a full honest to goodness cast here and luckily for us the balance of the participants aren't half bad either. We have a lot to get through so it's time to dim the lights, pull back to curtain, and let the crew take a bow as we begin episode 123, Final Fantasy VII, part 5, a memorable, enduring cast. Final Fantasy VII is the biggest selling game ever on PlayStation. Over 100 hours of the most compelling gameplay. This year's most anticipated release is Final Fantasy VII. Now, before we start talking about the individual cast members, let's set the table for the nearly two hours of character conversations with some general thoughts. Starting us off is cosplayer, Diane McQueen, followed by the one and only Games with Coffee, and concluding with the co-host of the Player One podcast and creator of the Generation 16 series of YouTube videos, Greg Seward. I was gonna ask that were there... What other characters did you identify with when you played it? Even in, obviously Sephiroth, but, and Cloud, talked about for what, they are the characters that you saw bits of yourself in that you were able to be like, ooh, I understand that character. I don't know. That is also a very peculiar thing to Seven because I do that with everything. mean, know, we do that as human beings. Like we're like, that's me. You know, even unconsciously, you're like, I feel drawn to that person. We're similar. Right. But, I didn't do that for Seven. Like, it feels like this perfect narrative where everyone exists as themselves and I didn't want to necessarily be in it. I was just so impressed with the skill in which it was told, like the craftsmanship of the writing and also the merging with technology, it being basically an interactive novel, you know, with a lot of fun battles in it. And yeah, it felt very like separated from me. I just appreciated it so much. It was like a work of art that you can't own. Yeah. And I was just like, wow, that is amazing. You know, I know people are like, Cloud is me. Cloud, you know. And of course, I always thought Aerith was very pretty. but I guess I was more of a Tifa if you really want to put a fine point on it. Because I was really, I wasn't a kickboxer or anything, but I was really, I was tougher and I thought of myself as just physically stronger and also very direct and that kind of thing. I did gravitate towards her a lot. And also I could talk for three hours about the relationship between Cloud and Tifa. And that's another thing that also breaks my heart. The fact that these things exist in the story and you can hold them where they are not at the tragic conclusion yet. And I think that's what people love. They really just want to play in that intermediate. They don't want to think about the sad ending. Because it is. It kind of is. identify with any characters in Final Fantasy VII? You said you loved Cloud. Cloud was like your first, love it first sword. Basically, yes. Was there anyone else that you really connected with? Really, as I went through the game, let's see, I I connect, in many ways I connect with every character in that game. In some way, shape or form, T-fun or nurturing, and maternal instinct, Aerith, spunky, fun. kind of mysterious, like you don't really know what's going on with her, but she's super interesting and you're like, yeah, I really, really am interested in you. And then there's Barrett, he's a big tough guy, but he's also a big softy when it comes to his kid. And Sid, Sid is my guy, man. He's possibly one of the reasons why I succeed in engineering, because that guy is a sweary piece of work. And I'm like, I aspire to be him. In fact, I am like him in many ways. And the fact that I do a lot of cursing, but in my job, we kind of have to do that if you work in construction. It's like, you kind of have to. That's just the world. Yeah, my first job was in building materials. We used to deliver like material to job sites and it's just the parlance of the industry. You're not just delivering materials, you're delivering curses of the materials. nothing is good. Everything is late and everyone's tired and cranky. Any characters that you really like latched on to or didn't for whatever reason I You know, it's funny because I found I mean the first Characters that you actually play. Well, I guess not all of them it so you really cloud and Barrett are your introduction and I didn't really like either of them now to be honest cloud was very much that like Like too cool anime are you know, hero archetype that I just, probably did like that a lot more in the 90s, but you know, I don't remember being, he was so, so cold and just his dialogue was not amazing. And Barrett, think the thing that got me was they had really, they tried so hard to make him seem modern. There was like, and it was kind of a running joke, like the Ebonics and the light. cursing and stuff like that. But I mean, did like how he was like the angry, he was like the big teddy bear that we sort of covered it up with all that anger and that gruff exterior, especially when you see him with his daughter for the first time and stuff like that. So he definitely grew on me. But I think probably Tifa was the one that I liked the most at the start of the game anyway, just because she was well written and a really good bridge between those two characters. And also you could feel her kind of not always able to bridge that gap between them. It almost felt like she was the everyman in the first part of the game, know, not really Cloud. You know, most of these games where you have like the mostly silent protagonist, he's the everyman. You're experiencing the world through him and you still are with Cloud. But I felt like Tifa was way more relatable. Yeah. Because she was feeling the things I was feeling about those other two characters most of the time It's interesting as I'm having these conversations for the first six Final Fantasy games people are very quick to say I identify with Selis or I identify with this person or that person with Final Fantasy 7 It's a lot slower and people still love this game. It's not no question. They love it But the identity thing is like it's different so and that's I think a piece of this I'm gonna explore a bit is like what made this different where we didn't just fall in love with these characters, were we experiencing this story, as like a movie, almost outside looking in, or I just, it's just something that comes to mind as I'm having these conversations. I think you're right. I think that's definitely, that's a great way to put it. It has a different feel from the original games, but it's so much more story-based too, and it moves. It's funny after saying it's a slow burn, the first part of that game moves at such a clip. you know, a lot's happening in the first like three or four hours of that game. A lot is happening. So, yeah, it's I think you're probably right. And I'd be interested. I'll be interested when the episode comes out to hear who other people felt they related to more. Yeah, because again, it's it's interesting because when I when I played it as a late twenty something. I didn't relate to anybody. was just playing a game and it was fun. I enjoyed some of the systems and the story was neat and that was the end of it. I didn't have that connection. But again, it wasn't my first Final Fantasy either. It was a lot of people's first ones. I'm curious to hear why people connect with these things. I think it's fair to say that a lot of these games are aimed at a mid-teens to early 20s player as well. That doesn't surprise me to hear that in your late 20s when you got a little bit of life experience behind you. that you might not necessarily, you know. Yeah, I'm paying for an apartment and like, know, having relationship issues and such. It's like the trials and tribulations of Cloud, Aerith and Tifa are not, they're not hitting like they probably would have if I was 17 playing it, When they blow up the macro reactor, you're like, man, imagine what that's gonna do to all the Midgardians power bills. Seriously, through the roof, through the roof, utilities are gonna go outrageous. Are you kidding me? You guys don't have to pay. All right. I thought it was interesting, actually. I will say, though, the other thing that I kind of especially liked about the first part of that game in Midgard with and I'm totally blanking now the corporation. What was the corporation called? Shinra Shinra with Shinra that they were really obviously had a lot to say about corporate greed. And I I kind of love that they went for it. I kind of love that At one point, they literally just decide to kill a bunch of people so they can kill a lot of other people down in the slums, like where they just release a whole plate from Midgard and drop it on people. It's you know, this is the it's so it's shocking when it happens. Yeah. But it's also like, yeah, this is this is the end game for the corporate greed. Sure. Yeah, I can see that, especially in this world. Continuing our setup and introductory conversation is Mike from the Distorted Illuminations YouTube channel, followed by Ian of Nerds Abroadcast, and finally Julian of the Stage Select Podcast. Now, did you say you bought PlayStation just for Final Fantasy VII? Was that one of the main reasons, or were you looking forward to other? That was the main reason. So when you got Final Fantasy VII, this is interesting because this is of its time, and if you kinda go back to that era, you... I had never seen anything like Final Fantasy VII on a TV screen, let alone computer screen or any screen, really. What about it underwhelmed you? Because, especially of that era, nothing looked like it. Purely from the visuals it was great. Okay, so did you enjoy the video? always loved how it looked. And again, it's got that Final Fantasy music. Even if I'm gonna, I'm gonna still say Six is the better soundtrack. Seven is not slacking. It was such a good soundtrack. But even then there's something I kinda started to realize. Like in part in terms of the combat, there really isn't much of a difference between your characters outside of their limit breaks. True. There's some truth to that, yeah. You can just give someone the exact same materia set up as a different character and they're going to function the same. I didn't like that. Interesting. Because... But Six had a similar thing too, where if you just equip everyone with the same espers, they'd all have the same magic and all that. Eventually. Eventually. Fair. Okay. And with Six, that really only happens when you... understand how that's working when you understand how the per level bonuses work. True, that's true. just swap the material over and you're basically just making that character the other one except for the limit breaks. So you were, cause Final Fantasy 7 didn't have a shift from what I would say more of like a job based system, you know, at four and five, of course. Six moved away from it and then seven completely abandoned that idea. Cause you're right, every character plays essentially the same with the exception of those limb breaks. For you that wasn't, cause I know you like your systems, like you like crafting systems and you like your customization. So was that a part of it? Yeah, cause I like customization, but if you're going to give me all of these different characters that are so unique, I want them to actually feel you. Six still managed to hold onto that. It did fall apart a bit at the late game, yes. Seven almost just abandoned the uniqueness of the characters entirely. different that is interesting yeah which obviously you know a big part of final fantasy seven and any final fantasy really are the characters were there any characters that you really connected with that you enjoyed either playing as or experiencing the game through my main my main team was cloud barra and tifa all the way through the game from start to finish really wow not to say that i didn't like the other characters but Kate Sith can get in the bin. Not my favourite. Kat-shee, however it's pronounced. I don't know. But there were some of the villains as well that I thought were really well written as well and you know, they only turn up in a couple of scenes but you just think, I want to see more of you. So every time the Turks turned up, I was like, who are these guys? They're cool. Yeah, they're pretty cool. The Turks are pretty neat. Yeah, they're a fun villain. They always felt very at the time. I wouldn't have known. And again, I didn't play Final Fantasy seven as a kid either. I didn't have a PlayStation. I was Team Nintendo. So I played I played Final Fantasy again much later, probably I'll say me eight years ago at this point. Maybe longer. Yeah, maybe maybe a bit longer, maybe 10 at this point. But definitely as a as an adult. And I played the original PlayStation version. That was the only thing available. And I characters always very felt very animated to me, which I can imagine in the West would have been a little bit of a surprise. I don't think a lot of that was very prevalent at the time. So I'm curious how those those characters really made an impact for you. They definitely made an impact over here. I do remember a lot of big adverts for the game and, you know, front covers of magazines with Cloud with the enormous sword. And of course, it was. really the first Final Fantasy game we ever got over here so it had to make that big impression, that big impact. Sure. And a lot of the marketing was just saying, this is the PlayStation's biggest game, it comes on three discs. It's so big it can't be on one disc, things like that. And then of course there's all of my friends at school repeating that marketing phrase and then there's me saying, yeah I've got it on PC, mine's four discs, it's got an install disc as well. That's so great, I love that. So, before we get into the story, I'd like to focus on character. Obviously, a much trimmer cast than Final Fantasy VI, but still a memorable one, of course. We all, of course, remember Cloud as the main protagonist, but what were the characters that you connected with when you were playing it of its time, and then maybe as you've moved forward as well? Yeah, it's kind of funny. It's the same as 97 as it is now, which is the game is about three characters for me. It is Cloud, Tifa, and Barret. And I didn't really connect with the rest of the cast. And honestly, I think that's like when I went after the, you know, the dust had settled and I and I had kind of had time to think about the game and especially as Final Fantasy eight came out and it also had a similarly small cast. I realized how disappointed I had been in the cast of Final Fantasy seven because one, it was like literally half the size of Final Fantasy six is cast. Right. And then personality wise. You know, because also it's like, two of them are missable characters and one of them I did miss my first time through. I didn't find Vincent. I had to like look up a guide later on. Oh, wow. OK. Play through to get him. so you can miss Vincent and Yuffie. And then you've got my least favorite, Sid. You've got Kate Sith, which I know I know it's catchy. I don't care. Like I just never cared for that character at all. I think he's got great moments, but I never really cared all that much for Red 13 either. like, and then, know, Aerith, like she was, I think at the beginning, like I never really, you know, like don't get me wrong, I was devastated when the thing happened, but as far as a character, it's like right off the bat, like I liked Tifa as a character more. And I think that- The best thing that the remake series has done for me is make Aerith a more interesting and character. Okay. So yeah, for me, it was very much like that trio and didn't really jive with the rest of the cast. If Cloud and Sephiroth are the driving narrative force of Final Fantasy VII, you could make an argument that's not exactly the case, but they're definitely the two largest pillars, our next character may be the beating heart. And while one of the most popular and divisive Final Fantasy VII debates is Aerith versus Tifa, in this round of conversations, the last of the Settra was easily the most debated. doesn't hurt she has one of the most iconic and memorable death scenes in video game history. I suppose that helps sear your memory into people's minds. Starting our conversation about Aerith is Matt and Jeff of the Fun and Games podcast, followed by content creator, Mikhail Casanova, and then Michael K. Hughes of the Capes and Junk podcast. Like, so I guess to rip the bandaid off first on the one big moment and then I'll talk about one of my favorite smaller moments is like, The death of Aerith, I just had never seen anything like that in a video game. Like, the closest thing was when Cloud dies, or not Cloud, when Chrono dies in Chrono Trigger, and you're like, wait, the main character's dead? What the hell do I do now? And like, but even that, like, that was more impactful when you brought him back. And for me least, Marle hugs him. Like, that was impactful and emotional, but nothing compared to this. When that scene happens in Sephiroth, something that will always remain very strong in my head is Aerith. Dropping like the sword going through her and her dropping limp slumped the slump Yeah, I just I lost it. I was so upset I was and I cried through that whole scene and like I think it's just There's almost there's there's no dialogue because there's no talking in the FMV scenes it's all character expression and Music and I mean we haven't said it already. It's one of the best soundtracks, but erit's theme to this day. I've seen the the Square Enix orchestra, the Final Fantasy orchestra several times, and every time they play that, there's not a dry eye in the house. Because it's just, it's, I'm a music nerd, and music is so important to moments like that, and this is the perfect score for that moment. And I think it's just, it's just beyond comparison. There's just, there are moments like it that have come, but I think to me, nothing as impactful as that moment, because it's one of the first I've had. There are ones that have made me cry more, hit me harder. but there's something about this first moment that it was just unlike anything I'd ever seen before. And what's so funny is the FMV itself, that moment is iconic, as well as it should be. And I think the limitations of the medium at the time preserved it because the temptation to put voiceover in it, to put dialogue in it is strong and people give into that temptation all the time. but it did play better because of that. It allowed us to feel. It's why fighting Jenova afterwards had no other battle music than Aerith's theme. And I think it's important in looking back on it or revisiting it to look at the moments before and after that are honestly what make it such a big moment for me. The fact that beforehand, Sephiroth does kill Aerith, but you almost kill Aerith. You go forward to meet her and you lose control of Cloud. Now, video games have such a wonderful way of playing with control and playing with watching versus playing. And Final Fantasy VII definitely does its fair share of watching. I would call it the movie of games if Metal Gear Solid didn't come out a year later. But it does still have a very cinematic feel. And so there is just as much of a panic and a worry of Cloud walking up to Aerith, pulling out his sword, holding it over his head and suddenly being stopped and not giving in to temptation. but you have to hit the action button for each of those motions. You don't move on in the story. Cloud is fighting and you pull out the sword. You get it in your hands. You pull it over your head and then everyone stops you. And you get to feel the relief of not going through like, my God, am I about to, what the hell? And then that being taken from you. And then after the fact, after you have that moment of watching the FMV Sephiroth, starts to mock you as if you're nothing, as if you are simply a puppet. And the idea of playing with Cloud as a video game character is a puppet that you are controlling that you have just played with by hitting the action button to do that scene I just talked about. But also, having that said to you and really leaning into the powerlessness that you have just experienced on several visceral levels. I don't care if that is a shape-shifting piece of Genova's tale. or actually the guy that we threw into a reactor five years ago or what? I'm taking that fucker down. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I couldn't said it better myself. Yeah, it's one of those moments where it really defines, again, when I played it, I had already been spoiled on it, two years after, but when the internet hit, became the worst kept secret in games. However, it's still, I was able to appreciate it, and it's funny, Matt, how you said when you play games, you try to just roll with it, right? You're just like, just roll with it. It's very interesting how we all came at Final Fantasy 7 in a different way, because I was in my early, very early 30s, late 20s, early 30s. I was doing film reviews like crazy. I was like my main side hustle were film reviews. So at that era in my life, I was very critical. Like everything was looked at in a critical eye and it was sometimes hard to skew that. So maybe I wish I could have seen it in more of an innocent way, quote unquote, where I can just just roll with with crazy Sephiroth. So I just I just want to touch on that for a second, because I found that really interesting how we kind of both arrived at. The Aerith moment, mean, the moment when her materia hits, and you don't know what materia yet, but that materia hits the ground and that music starts, like right to the heart, like right, right there. Do you want to talk a bit about about the Arith situation about losing Arith? Because obviously that is the big moment of this game. And you can't talk about Final Fantasy seven without talking about that moment. Do you recall what it was like when you first met first happened and what your reaction was? I was like. When it happened, because there was a lot and I guess at the time I didn't understand the concept of foreshadowing. But there was a lot of things that happened about 20 minutes before that happened from cloud losing his mind at the ancient temple and beating her up to when you got up to there to see her, she was praying. He's like to, he's about to cut. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, what, what, why am I controlling this? Can I, it freaks me out and yet When it happened, you know, when they stopped, they're like, cloud stop. I was like, OK, cool. And then cut scene. Here comes Sephiroth. Shank smile. Ha ha. Gotcha. Same. And I'm like. What? I remember I was sitting with my brother, my brother, Devin and our our older brother, Nick, we were like they were just sitting watching. They were just like. WCF. What? Yeah. And I'm over here. I dropped the control. I was like, Hey, wait, wait, wait, wait, how did that happen? And then I was like, okay, okay. We just going to use Phoenix down and bring it back. No, she's gone. Then when cloud dropped her, was like, They they. Hey, they killed a main character. Yeah. And like. this is befuddled because the only other game, the first game to ever. Do that, that is a traditional RPG is fantasy star two. With Ney, Ney got killed off and. It was. as emotional as it could be on Sega Genesis. I'll say that. But, you know, that that hit me hard. But like, this was just like, whoa, I went and did like the date with Aerith and I, you you spend all this time with Aerith. I mean, you date Baron or Tiffa, but I always shipped Aerith with Cloud. Yeah. But like, I was like, wait. I just spent all this time grinding this character, learning about her, getting attached to her, loving her personality. You just took her from me. Pardon? Yeah, right. was like, wait, what? Right. And I stopped playing the game for like two weeks because I was mad. I'm like, I remember I took it out. I took it out my PlayStation, put it back in the case and I went to my mom. said, hey, return this game, please. Wow. You were like, just this. I can't. I'm like, can't she's like, happened? She's like, I can't return it because you can have it for several months. I'm like, they killed and I started crying. I'm like, they killed Aaron. no. I said, what? She said, what? What? who is on the news? No, it's on the game. Is it on the news? It's so interesting because earlier you were saying how much you put into Aerith. You had maxed her out. That was your ride or die. You went on the trolley ride with her and the fireworks. You went on the date. You were in. And then to have her taken away. Yeah, can imagine that being a couple of weeks. Wow. I was mad. That's wild. I was mad. I didn't let that go that that. And then like be that really kicked off my dislike of cloud because like I was already I had a lot of questions about cloud with the stuff that he would do. I was like, something's wrong with this guy. And I didn't understand schizophrenia or multiple personalities or any mental health at the time. But like, I was like, something's wrong with this guy. And then like, following that you go to the the icicle in and you go further and further and further. And then like the stuff at the northern crater. And then when he gave the material to Sephiroth, sorry if I'm swelling a 20 almost 30 year old man, 30 year old guy. Yeah, it's something like that. It's fine. I'm like, I was I'm like, I'm done with this guy. I'm so done. I lost my my favorite character. He and screwed our party. The planets done like. was I don't even know what to say. And then when you finally get him back and, know, when he had to go through the part, the whole to restore his memories and all the other stuff, I said in my cloud. I just like I know he gets his redemption art, but it's like You're getting a redemption art at the cost of my favorite character. If you I'm sorry, I'm not sorry. And I and it just doesn't help because like teeth was trying to like be there for him. And I'm like, you're just a side chick. I'm sorry. Sorry, I just I just find it so interesting that people have that connection and because you're right You can't get her back and in previous games and Final Fantasy like, know You lose characters like Final Fantasy 4 as people fall on left and right. Yeah at the end they all kind of sort of come back but this is there's something about the innocence of Aerith and the I don't say purity that might not be the best op best word, but There's something about Eryth that when she gets run through by that sword, really does hit. Even though she is an active participant in this, in these battles, like she is involved. There's something that really hits hard and it's a masterfully done scene. I mean, it's, it's masterfully done. I'm just from a structure standpoint and a, I'll say filmmaking or a cinematography standpoint, just it's beautifully framed and shot and done. And I just can't imagine somebody playing it of its time. Boom, there's that character and you know, you ain't getting their back no matter what your friends in the playground say. You can ride that roller coaster for weeks and it ain't happening. You're just like me and General Leo. Like I ain't, that ain't happening. Oh man. Yeah, Yeah, dude. That's things. But it's a general Leo you only had for, you know, you use them for a few, you were like, Oh, this guy's awesome. He has this cool movie uses and the not air there was a main mainstay and if you were really a team erath that was that must have been a blow Somebody who I'm sure was spoiled on the on the big air reveal the big air. Oh, yeah. Because that because again, as soon as the Internet became a thing, that was the worst secret in video games. So what was your take on? What did you take on that moment when it it came around? Like, yeah, you're absolutely right. Everyone knew about it well before. I mean, if you didn't play the game at the time, you knew the spoiler and I knew when it was. knew I was completely prepared for it. But when it happens and her theme starts playing, it still choked me up. Like all of these years later, knowing full and well that it was coming, it still hits like a truck. It really does. And I got to say, it's masterful how the game does it, where at first the game is trying to make cloud do it and you lose control of cloud. And I remember thinking like, whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what's going on again? Knowing full well, you this is. 15 years after the fact after it was made, I'm playing it. I know the big surprise, but still, like you said, and then of course, Sephiroth comes off after, you know, you're able to stop yourself from doing it. And then Sephiroth does the deed. Yeah, it's striking. It's really effective. Music cue is perfect. It's just that it's lowering her into the water like no Phoenix down for you, my lady. Like that is you're sinking away. It's it's it's it's tough. Yeah, it's it's. Super emotional for for again again again with the story that I'm not super into it still it still hurts No, that's that's that's totally fair for sure Continuing our Aerith conversation with some truly personal recollections is Games with Coffee, followed by Eddie Varell of the Boss Rush Network. She's surrounded by so many people, but yet she feels incredibly alone because she doesn't understand anything about her heritage. All she knows is just stories and legends and whatnot. And here she is. She's a living, breathing person of that heritage, but she knows nothing of it. And that kind of identity loss, that kind of loss of self, you know, that's... It's, it's, it's, yeah, it's just, it's just really sad. And then you, during her journey, you go along and you start learning more about the heritage of the setra, their role in the role in the beginning when Genova arrived and that sort of thing. And then you kind of get the sense that eventually, Aerith kind of knows what her destiny is. She knows that, I'm gonna have to sacrifice myself in order to save the planet, in a sense. And you you don't pick up that like right away, but as you keep playing it over and over again, you you kind of realize that, shoot, she actually knows what's gonna happen to her. And she's just willingly walking towards that. She's like walking towards the executioner's chair. Like knowing that her time is very short. So that made her super relatable because she just... She lives as though every day is her last and in her mind, she knows every day is her last. Yeah. In many cases. Because she sees the finish line almost. She understands what's going to happen. It's really touching and really challenging. But I want to actually go back to that Aerith moment because obviously that's the one that's it's a top 10 moment in games probably. mean, I'm not good at lists, but that's kind of where I'd probably put it. And it's up there. Do you remember what it was like experiencing that as a 10 year old? Oh my god, okay. So, I mean I was actually kind of like roughly 11-ish during this time. Yep. Because I didn't get to play any video games during the week. was mostly weekends and the first time I got Final Fantasy 7 it was a rental and I didn't have a memory card so... So I would play through the beginning of the beginning sequence of that game like over and over and over again until I got a memory card but... Far, far flung in the future, about a year or so later, we get to the point in the Forgotten Capital. This was just after Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Sephiroth and attacks Aerith in a fit of uncontrollable rage. They find themselves in the Forgotten Capital all the way in the northern Icicle area continent and... Yeah, like... Man, I'm thinking about it again, and I remember I was sitting in the living room with my brother during that time, and we were both going through it, and we were on pins and needles. We did not know what was going on. We didn't know what was going to happen next. Cloud wakes up in the middle of the night. He's like, I can feel him, him being Sephiroth. I can feel Sephiroth. His presence is here. I can feel him. He's here. We've got to go find him. And then they go into the bowels of the city, which is a complete 180 from what you see up on the surface. you see this like, in the surface it's just like all decayed. It's like an archeological paradise for most people. you know, like there's so much to excavate, so much to explore in terms of like the past, in terms of like digging up artifacts and stuff like that. that sort of thing. It's it's a room. Yeah, that's what I was looking for. It's a ruin. It's a ruin of its a shell of its former self. But underneath it, there's just this ethereal like there's these ethereal like looking buildings. They're like elegant looking. They're clean. They're like they look like they've been untouched. And Aerith is sitting on a dais that just looks so pristine almost almost the divine almost divine in a nature. And you're going down the steps and you're going down to the platform. Cloud separates himself from the group. He's like, I got this. Jumps over the pillars that are sitting in the water underneath the dais. And I remember, I'm like, what is going on? And then you approach Aerith and then all of sudden, Cloud just like, he suffers another one of his seizures. and walks back, draws his sword and I'm like, Claude, what are you doing? No, don't do it, what are doing, man? What are you doing? Turns around, walks up to Aerith and I couldn't do nothing. I'm trying to move him away, but he would not move. It's interesting how in that moment you have no control over his actions throughout the entire game during that time. You were mostly in control of Claude, but in that moment, The game shifts that narrative and says no you're not in control anymore. You're not in control anymore like no cloud is under control under the influence of someone else and that's someone else being Sephiroth or really Genova in that case Another bucket another bucket of worms so it's holding the sword above his head and he's about to strike and Tifa's like no God don't do it or well would be any other party member But I remember I remember specifically as Tifa because like she was always in my main party. I love Tifa And she's like that and then cuts to the CGI scene when Sephiroth buries the massamine right into her stomach and is like, there's no way, no phoenix down in the world is gonna save you this time. But I remember that feeling. I was in shock. was like, what? I remember I was just globsmacked and then I didn't play the game for almost two weeks. Wow. It you that hard? It hit me that hard that I did not pick it up. I'm pretty sure it was more than two weeks, because I know those two weeks, it was a pretty cold fall afternoon then, and I just didn't pick it up again. We can come about, like, I don't want to Final Fantasy VII, I'm too scarred from that. And then I eventually went back. I remember I wrote it as one week, but I'm thinking, it can't just be one week, it had to be more than like... More than one week. I'm pretty sure it's just two. I'm have to ask my brother He probably remember better than I do a sizable amount of time You had to put it down like you had to say you say like I can't I could not I go back to that I Mean there was a boss that happens right after the death like you're facing off against one of genoa's forms I just couldn't do anything I just like put the controller down and just let it just let it wail on me Wow, that was it. That's amazing. I just had dreams. It's like What could I have done differently? It's exactly like the quote, if I knew this was coming, I would have done things differently, but what could I have done differently? Could I go through the game again and do things differently? What would I do? But eventually I picked it back up again. I played through that part. I used a water ring that I picked up earlier to basically nullify all of Jenova's attacks. I can actually get through that sequence. It's like, all right, we're good. And then it just goes from bad to worse to really messed up. And it just keeps hitting you. And it's funny too, it goes back to life. You have the good parts where you have that dating sequence where you're at the gold saucer, you're on top of the world, you have your friends beside you, you're sitting with the girl of your dreams. fireworks are going off and you feel like nothing, nothing bad can happen to you. And then you're just on this roller coaster where everything that can happen will happen. That's like the Murphy's law of roller coasters just happens right afterwards. And then next thing you know, you lose control of yourself. You find out that you are not technically not cloud strife, but a puppet built as a Sephiroth clone. And Tifa knew the truth for the entire time, but she couldn't bring herself to tell him the truth because it would just break him. many ways, Cloud was not ready to accept the truth and nothing pretty much hammered that point up until... Nothing pretty much cemented that point until they were at the Northern Crater. Until that moment where they were in the... the flashback sequence where Sephiroth comes and says, yeah, no, you're not in this picture. You're not in this picture during that sequence. This is actually Zack and you're nowhere near this. All of your memories, all of the stuff that you say happened five years ago, you were never there. it's so messed up. this guy just tell you, it's like everything that you're thinking right now, it didn't exist. Like, that's scary. So as you were playing the game, are there any characters that you immediately attached to when you were playing it? Like, were there any characters that you were like, you had to almost identified with in a certain way? So definitely Aerith, I did. And I identified with her because of her pureness. Her pureness, should say. Her purity. Her humbleness and like her being just a genuine nice person. that she cared for everybody and that kind of represents like I'm gonna say my motive but like my morals and stuff it's like being nice to people helping them out when I have a chance to help them out being thankful for the people that you meet and everything and everyone just had aura to her that just attracted people to her like there was never if you Final Fantasy 7 there was never no one hated on her like she became Really for a lot of minor characters modern characters for gamers. She became an icon Across the board no matter what No matter where you came from once you learned about earth She was almost the equivalent to Mario Like still to this very day, if you don't think she's iconic, look at all the cosplay that is still going on with her, just with her outfit. Totally. Totally. Absolutely. From 1997, I was at PAX East and I seen about seven errors still going on. Wow. That is almost two decades that this game has been out. Actually about three decades, getting close to three decades that this game's been out and she's been. that iconic. So definitely, Aerith, I felt attached to. I feel like that represents a lot about me. Let's jump into Aerith because that was definitely going to be on the list of those big moments to talk about. It's impossible to talk about Final Fantasy 7 without mentioning that moment. How did that hit you of the day? And I'd love to hear more of your thoughts about it. My job was on the floor. I could imagine. I could googly moogly gas. I'm like, oh, what? And I it was such a turn because here everyone's my healer and everything and it was just like that that closeness that cloud in era of had that friendship and everything and I it didn't Don't know me that era is that had a relationship. I I Zach had completely lost my lost any Willbury in the story front of fancy Sarah like I didn't even care about her I didn't even know that he was gonna be a part of the game It's a his get on gang came out be like that cool is that? Yeah, right keep like he didn't he just didn't resonate in the store in the story but when Sephiroth came down and stabbed her and you see it go through her and the Material that's in her head. Yeah false and then just seeing Cloud grab her, you know, her body and stuff and then just lay her in the water and go down. It was such a pivotal moment in storytelling and narrative. It really was going for an emotional beat that you really didn't catch in games and stuff like that. Even though that sacrifice and death in role playing games happened here for ages, Fantasy Star 2 on the Sega Master System. Watch the, I know some people won't play it, but if you play the ending of that game, you will see the sacrifices that was made in that game. So it's not a new concept or thing, but just seeing your well-connected character in everything that you just love, that you kept using, that you was grinding. putting all this time and effort invested in her all to slip away for part of a story. Yeah, that's tough. That's that. That's yeah. That that was a change in video games and storytelling for definitely for RPGs. Of course, you see other games do do it and take take things like that. Gets Award three. when what's his name sacrifices himself so markets and them could continue on with the mission he got in the little van and drove and stuff and that's after too after he seen his wife died and he had to kill his wife so yeah it's like it's it it that death scene was so powerful like everybody who's seen it some people cry Some people was gagged, they could not say nothing and don't forget this is an era where you couldn't say anything. The only way that you could talk about it is if someone was at that point in the game. That was it. Did you think we were done talking about Aerith? Okay, almost done, almost done. Let's join Greg Seward and James and JG of Retrofits as they put a bow on this iconic character. Sorry, although I will say, and this is just the hardcore Sega fan in me just crossing my arms and going, when Aerith died, I mean, it was a big impact in the story, don't get me wrong, but I had this, I was so angry about. This is so stupid. This is an early 20 something. This is an early 20 something nerd being way too precious about what he loves. But I was so angry about how everyone was saying how brave that was of them to kill off a beloved character. When I had played fantasy star two where Nye gets murdered halfway through the game and she's like the second she's with you from the start, she's treated like a little sister the whole time. And I was like, actually push the glasses up, you know, but, but no, it was very effective. Yeah. Well, I fantasy star four, I mean, right. Does it, was it Alex? think it is or she, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, we've been seeing this, us as any players has been playing, yeah. They're knocking off characters left and right, even in other file fantasies. Yeah. But it's, is a, it is a big moment, but it's also, when I look at that moment, it is actually ex exquisitely done. the, it's the way it's done is I really love the way actually where the game removes control from you. So because if you remember, Cloud is the one who was supposed to do the give her the final coup de grace. He's being taken over by the thoughts and memories of Sephiroth or whatever it is. And he's in the game, removes control from you. So now you're like jamming on your D pad like, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop character. And then Sephiroth comes in to do what Sephiroth does to finish the job. Yeah, it's effective, but I could totally see if someone's like. screaming about this moment. Yeah, but that was just me being like I said, too precious about the things I loved being a 20 something nerd. I was feeding my ground feet in the ground. No way am I playing some Sony thing that's not happening. Final Fantasy VII, of course, filled with huge moments. mean, that's just, the game is full of them. Obviously there's one huge moment we'll probably have to do an entire episode on, which is of course is the passing, the stabbing of young Aerith, or Aerith as it was in our day. Do you remember what it was like to experience that for the first time? Complete and total shock. Because you get invested. I never actually got her final. Limit break because I never knew that you could get it in the first disk. yeah And afterwards I never tried because again, I knew that she was going to die. Why bother? exactly And but yeah because they built it up so much and even right before she dies Kate Sith does his prediction and he was saying in that, know teeth are clouding erith or eris are perfect for each other because there was that oh right because he's like he does fortune telling yeah the little stuffed animal he rides on is like a fortune telling toy because they didn't quite know if it was going to i guess the riders were flip-flopping if it was going to be etifa or eris or what and guess they wanted to throw that a tragedy in there. I feel like a couple of different writers were fighting each other over the romantic subplots because there are several choices you make that affect the affection stat that determines who goes on the date, which I always found, one, Yuffie's is very funny. One, it's very hard to do correctly. Like you have to do things really off to get her date, but she's also the only one who like gives Cloud a little kiss. And then it immediately becomes the most cringe moment imaginable because she like sits down and she's like, so are you gonna say something? He's like, whatever. She's like, my God. It's such a, it's so weird. It's so awkward. It's And it's perfect for her being like 16 and like just confused teenager. But like the, to get back actually on point, the thing that I remember the most about the, the sequence, cause it is a whole sequence going up to like the end of Eris is like you, you see the signs that like things are not as they're supposed to be like my perception is altered because you hear the high-pitched wine the color changes like everything goes red for a second and you like walk up to her because you think okay well there's nothing else to interact with i guess i just have to go and save her even though something's happening yeah and then cloud just steps back and he shakes his head a bit and he grabs his sword and then starts raising it over his head and just as he's about to Cleaver in half your party members like stop you and you're like, whoa, what's happening? Okay, we we we have averted her death. We are good Everything's you know, and it's all gonna be good and fine now and nope. Take a breath everyone. Just relax for a second. wait. Yeah, there's more For just three more payments of $9.99 a month, you can save Eris! I remember that meme with the remake. It was like, oh, what was it? Perj- It was an in-game purchase for saving Aaron that had the director just rolling in money. Yep. Yep. That's exactly what it would be. All you have to do is sell that and you could sell it for any amount of money for anything. Anything. that a king's ransom. Yeah. So that reminds me just before we move on. Now, I go reminds me of something. So I won't give away the really sad part of this until until it's time the end of it for the big reveal. So I saw a video and most people know like the L1 R1. and it's either circle or square that you push. But if you're on certain screens in the game, like it makes something special happen. I think the most famous example is if you're at the horror hotel in Gold Saucer, it makes a bat fly at the screen and like makes a little noise. So a lot of work had been done since the game came out to discover every single one of them. Like all these videos have been made all this stuff has been submitted to square and into the creators of the game And they were all like very impressed like yes. Yes. Well good work like you found so many of them and people are started to say like I don't think there is anymore and The director of the game released a statement saying no There's one left one and And so I'm turn it on this video because this guy like says he found it and what happens is like he's explaining like how the mechanic works and like each screen and what everybody's found previous to that and then he explains a glitch in the game wherein if you well it's a it's a glitch that he tries to explain is how it actually isn't it was considered a glitch because if you go back to Midgar at the end of the game after Eris has died, you see her like tending the flowers in the church, right? And there's two kids there, but if you walk up to her, like if you make any motion towards her at all, she flashes and disappears. And it's meant to be like this thing where, she's gone. She's actually gone. If you talk to one of the little, I think it was like the little boys, like where did the flower girl go? Yeah. that's weird. If you go to the church after defeating Emerald Weapon, she does not disappear. She remains solid. There's not even a sound effect. in the video, this guy's like, no, that's not, that's not a thing. And he hits the buttons and nothing happens. He's like, yeah, I knew nothing would happen. And then he pulls out his controller and puts it in the second controller port and he's like, They wouldn't. No, they wouldn't. And he hits the buttons and suddenly the screen starts to go halfway inverted on the colors and it becomes a horror movie. no. And here's the best part. They start having a conversation where Cloud is like, but I thought you were gone. you mean you didn't know? This is Hades. no, that's so weird. and he's like, what? And then it ends. This is the big giveaway. It ends with the Eris's dialogue box coming up and it says, let's roll, homie. I'm like, oh, this dude pulled, no, when did this video come out? And it says April 1st, 2020. I'm like, you, that's so good. It was very good, yeah. Is it still out there? I gotta see this. It's gotta be. I gotta find it. was like finding out at But by looking at the date that it was an April Fool's prank was was harsh because because he even goes into a thing afterwards where he's like Now you can have her in your party for the rest of the game But all the colors on her portrait are inverted for some reason and also I can't figure out how to make her say any lines without crashing the game He's a pretty famous guy for coming up with strategies I even used a few of his materia combinations that he came up with. There's a really fun one that is basically easy mode for the weapons is that you can start the battle and then you walk away because it's an infinite loop that wins the battle for you. That's wild. Before we continue talking about the cast of Final Fantasy VII it is time to thank my wonderful patrons for their non-stop and gracious patronage. Starting with Philip Becker, Terry Kinnair, Games with Coffee, BT Gobbles, Julian of the Stage Select Podcast, Seth Sergel of the All N Media Network, Tim Knowles formerly of the Liedist, Little Let's Play Princess of Nerds Abroadcast, Greg Seward, Joey Coro of... Perfect Storm Gaming, Lindsay Harney, and the one and only fabulous, spectacular, and amazing, Pete Harney. If you would like to join these amazing human beings in their financial support of A Gamer Looks At 40, then mosey on over to patreon.com forward slash A Gamer Looks At 40, check out the tiers, and sign up today. And if not, no worries whatsoever. A rating or review on your pod player of choice is always a great way of supporting the show and it costs you nothing but your precious valuable time. Probably shouldn't sell it that way. Let's get back to the episode. We still have an entire cast to discuss. Now, fair warning for the balance of the episode. If it feels like some of your favorites are underrepresented, remember we've covered a bunch of ground in the generalities more than I realized as I was editing the episode. And there's always my Discord to share some love about a character who may have been less than thoroughly discussed. So please take to my Discord. is free to anybody who wants to join. Come on by, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the balance of the Final Fantasy VII cast. One such character is the final point in Final Fantasy VII's love triangle, question mark, Tifa Lockhart. Starting us off is Games with Coffee, followed by Eddie, and finishing up with James and JJ. You also mentioned you're a big Tifa fan. my God, I love Tifa. What about Tifa? I can see so many, my God, she's beautiful, she's- She's beautiful, she's powerful, she can crush your skull with her thighs. She can crush man's skull like watermelon. No, but even beyond that, she's just, she's not without her flaws, of course. But the way that she's just presented... She's very nurturing, she cares about everyone, she's always an optimist, she always tries to look at the bright side of things. And you can't help but be like, man, I really like Tifa for that. Like she's nice to everybody. there's no, when I was, I remember when I was a kid, like there's not a mean bone in her body. Like, I mean, eventually we're gonna talk about the fan fiction and like, first thing I thought about is like, there's no way I can have. My Tifa character ever be like a mean person. Really? was a hard line. There's like no. Yeah, but there are there are moments where she loses control of herself in my thick that kind of operates on that duality there. Sure. Like because there are moments where like when Tifa loses it, she just. She just gets really mad like during that sequence in during the flashback when her father died, she just flies in a rage. picks up a seven foot sword without no without literally no effort. I seven feet of this is we're talking about seven feet of Seven feet one inch blade that thing probably weighs roughly 60 pounds. If I have my math right or so. One hand she literally one hands it in a fit of rage and just like charges that suffer off and like host that don't mess with her. Oh that's funny I love that. not make do not make her mad. Whatever you do, will mess you up. mean, she's not at supex level of awesomeness like Sabin, but she's up there, man. She is up there. But I think one of the best parts about Tifa, again, like I said, is her nurturing nature. She cares about everyone. She always checks in. She's pretty much kind of the sister that Arith never had. That's kind of my headcanon. Those two formed a really deep bond during their journey and they're basically almost like sisters to each other. Yeah, I know everyone's like, there's this love triangle competition between the two, but I'm like, I don't see it like that in most cases. It's just that they have this like... I feel like they have this really great relationship. I mean, I won't know that until I actually play a rebirth, which is next on my list to experience, but that's just kind of my headcanon. roller coaster and the funny thing is The team who made this they said that it was between Eric or Tifa so at a point in time They did kill Tifa and they got Wow and When they they I think they decided to Tifa. I think they tested it within the company and wanted to get people's opinions. And I think they said that it just wouldn't work. There's no impact to it because it's just like, even though that is Cloud's childhood friend, there's no impact of T for dying. What purpose does it sell, does it makes? You literally just lose another character. So they decided to go with Erath because there was such more of an impact due to the fact of how the story was written and how cloud and error was bonding until that moment happens. And I think earth's innocence that innocence that you pointed to earlier. I think that lends a lot to that sacrifice as well because Tifa was always always has a bit of a warrior to her. Like she was she's willing to go on the missions like she's so for her losing Tifa. I don't think would have hit as hard as Eric because Eric is this. I'll say symbol of purity that might not be the right saying, but for lack of a better term, she has this innocence to her where she had to go and that sacrifice makes it very sting a lot harder because she's not the warrior type. Even though she's in your party, she's your healer, she's fighting. It's a different vibe with her. Plus you probably spend a lot of time with her. You're leveling her. You're like, hey, you're my healer. What happened? You gotta come back. Right, and she's your second party member from the beginning of the game. So it makes sense to kill her off because of that. You grow with her. I'm not saying that you don't grow with Tifa, but Tifa comes in later on in the game. So you don't really have that much time to really spend and have a bonding moment with Tifa, because I think she doesn't come into almost the second disc of Final Fantasy VII, think through the whole first disc, believe the whole first disc is still just you and Eirith until the second disc happens. Yeah, you're right. You're right. There is a lot of, there's a lot of that connection. Tifa as well was another great story just because she's always like trying to, she's essentially like his helper through the whole thing. Like she's the reason that he sort of passes half the time for being, for lack of a better word, Yeah. You know, because without her, I feel like... Most of the party members would have figured it out. I feel like Kate Sith is on the verge of figuring it out before he has his breakdown. Yeah That's fair. Yeah, know she was absolutely propping him up and just Going along with his narrative for most of it because she knows stuff is wrong and well Not to get into it that much but the remake does a really good job of exemplifying how much she helps and Next up, Games with Coffee and the Let's Play Princess share some thoughts about Red13 and Kate Sith. The fact they are the only two animal characters in our cast is a pure coincidence I literally just realized. So, let's listen in. Were there any other characters that you identified with really deeply when you were a kid or again even as you play it now? Obviously things change. I mean, yeah, let's see. As a kid, again, yeah, of course Cloud, but... Who else? I'm really trying to stretch back here to the past. I'd say, know, in many cases, Red 13. I mean, growing up, you know, I didn't really have a very positive view of my parents. I mean, I was 11 years old. My dad was working a lot on night shifts and stuff like that during that time. So it was kind of hard to identify with him. you know, seeing Red Seeing Red Thread Green's story through his eyes and kind of realizing that, you know, he does these things for a reason. It kind of gave me bit of more appreciation for what he did. In many cases, like, don't get me wrong. He's not exactly the most perfect person in the world, but I mean, he's still my dad and he did his best. And you know, I will never forget that, what he did. What are some of the characters that you connected with or really fell in love with in Final Fantasy VII? Kate Sith, he's so huggable. Kate Sith is adorable and awesome and a cat. I actually, if we didn't name my black cat Poe, Kate Sith would have been another good choice of a name for our black main coon. it's, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, super huggable and adorable. Yeah, it's, it's I mean, my main party for every iteration through at least in the original game was the three C's. It was Cloud, Sid and Kate, Seth. Oh, cool. Nowadays, especially with the currently now rebirth, it was Cloud, Yuffie and Red 13. Really? Interesting. You'll see. You'll see if you ever play rebirth. Yuffie is broken. Oh really? really? Wow. She, she has two, uh, two abilities that she can use that pretty much just go, Hey, would you like your basic attack to be any elemental damage you desire? Hey, would you like to make a clone of yourself who does 50 % damage? Whoa. Yeah. So she just gets, you know, 1.5 damage plus Elemental damage and she just she just melts things. It's great That's crazy. Okay, I didn't I realized she was so overpowered in a rebirth and not an optional thing She's in the game Okay, so you have to you have to run with her. That's cool. Yeah, you have to run with her She will just join your party. She is not some hidden boss fight. Go to Wu-Tai do a bunch of stuff there interesting interesting Any other characters you really? kind of connected with you said case it because case this adorable in case it's just because cat on a giant stuffed giant Google awesome you have read 13. But 13 is cool. But also because he is such a child he's actually a kid in their races timeline. Because even in Advent Children the very first scene of Advent Children is something like 400 to 500 years later and He's still alive with kids. Which means at this point he's pretty much a teenager. Yeah, totally. That's true. That's a really good point. That's a really good point. I don't remember a lot of the Red 13 story. He finds he believed his entire life, or a good amount of it, that his father ran away from the duty of protecting Cosmo Canyon. And then we finally find out once we beat Gienatic and find the quote unquote statue that his father was struck by so many of the stone petrifying arrows that the Gi use. And he was there to the very end and now he stands as this still alive statue protector. And all I can think is the same thing with what everybody thought when Aerith died. Hey, just use a phoenix down. It's like, hey, just use a gold needle. Come on, guys. I know we have we have tools for these problems. You're exactly you're so right. We have said we have tools for this This isn't a useless item like the tissue and the 135th size model of a Shinra soldier Come on use this stuff Use the tools. We know we have some in the inventory. I've been saving them for hours now for just this occasion That's a really good point I love that that the story dictates otherwise. Coming up next, Mike from Distorted Illuminations and Games with Coffee discuss Barret, Yuffie, and Sid. Interesting, and did you not find the characters interesting from a story perspective or was it? Yeah. It was a mixed bag. Okay. Cloud was okay. He's an all right lead. I didn't really connect with him that much. I didn't care too much for Eryth and Thea either. Like okay characters. I really liked Barret. Okay, so you were a Barret guy. What about Barret really intrigued you? Two things. One, he actually did fulfill a comedic side role when necessary very well. He was very funny. I also always had a thing for characters that are just that openly passionate about whatever it is they're doing. Hmm and he had more passion in those early moments of Final Fantasy 7 than anyone else on that cast That's a fair point, especially in the early moments. He really believes in the mission. Yeah Where everybody else kind of this not everybody else especially cloud here for piloting He's kind of there just for the check. That's interesting. Yeah characters I do kind of like and stills they go on like Red eight I enjoyed I could do without you fee. I don't hate her She didn't really need to be there. There's a lot of disdain for Yuffie and I'm not sure why. I don't know. I don't remember even using Yuffie that much. I've only played it through completion once. This was many years ago, so. People hate her because unless you know how to answer those questions, you're going to constantly get robbed by her. Hmm, that's fair. I will admit, I love the touch of going into your menu and while you're doing that, she robs you. Is that an actual thing? Yes. Wait, explain this to me. I don't know this one. Well, because you randomly encounter her, you beat her, then she'll ask you these questions, talk. If you go into your menu, she just steals some of your money and runs off. Just like if you answer any of her questions wrong, she robs you and runs away. I didn't, why don't I remember? don't think when I played, don't think I, cause she's an optional character. You don't have to run into her. Weird. Okay. Why would they do that? See, I was reminded cause something similar happens in Chrono Trigger. It's when you go in that one sewer area. If you like run into the garbage or click on something, it alerts the enemies. But there's a save point at the end. But if you step on it, you hear the ding and the enemies hear that and attack you. That's funny. That's right. That's right. But of course with Seven though, you get to the one character I do love. And if you remember anything about our other conversations, it's the old grumpy guys that always get to me. I love Sid. Sid's great. Sid's really fun in Seven. He's a lot of fun in this iteration of the game. What about Sid? Are you a big fan of? The early days, just, you know, I was a kid, just this angry guy yelling and slurring at everybody. Like, that's funny. There is some charm to that for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and you still you're still a big Sid fan. yeah. I love them the older I get. It's just something about like you can feel just how beat down this guy was by life. Like it goes from it is a very funny presentation. We're just yelling and cursing everyone out. But you really kind of start to feel for just how much crap this guy went through that. It wasn't his fault. Just kind of let it make him a bit bitter, but you see him start to get over that. he gets through it. He fights through the old bitter angerness of all of his life. I like that. I love that guy. He's not my favorite. I think my favorite is still four. But he's still a top tier Sid for sure. Definitely, definitely for sure. And plus he's got a spaceship named after him. And it's so cool. It is very, very cool. That first FMV sequence when you see the high wind in Junon. I think it's Junon. Junon, Junon, Junon. Yes, Junon. And you see, you're climbing up that support pillar and you're sitting on top of the airfield and you just see that beautiful CGI shot of the high wind just there. It's like, whoa. this dope. And finally, finishing out the episode is Diana McQueen, followed by Eddie Varnell, and a truly random final shout out to a character I completely forgot existed by none other than James and JJ of Retrofits. yeah, I should also say Vincent. When Vincent, like, you he's a character you don't have to pick up, because, I think because he was connected to the Sephiroth story and they tell that story pretty well, like he had his own game. and then they go into the Turks a lot. So there's so much content there. People just keep rehashing it. It's so weird how it's told. it's all, know, I just want a Lucretia novel that shows her, because I mean, obviously, Hojo is a horrible person and she was not in her right mind at all. They weren't great. People love to demonize her and say, like, she's a terrible mother. And I'm like, I don't know. Like, yeah, it's hard to say. But I, you know, I have to go back and like, look at everything they've told us and then make another, you know, because I think she was a scientist first. But then if you get like bulldozed by a narcissist, you might do anything, you know, especially if you weren't you weren't planning on it. And the whole the whole thing with with Vincent and her. And I thought Hojo made him, did they change it? Did Hojo make Vincent? He like shot him and then brought him back to life and made him a vampire or? Something like that. I'm trying to, I can't place it at this moment. It's again- I just saw a video that said Lucretia saved him and did that to him. And I was like, what? Like I think maybe there was just a shot of her staring at him. I'm like- Because I can't see her doing that. even, she didn't, I mean, even if she was experimenting on her own body, you know, using herself as an experiment, I don't think she would do that to him. But anyway, that's a huge tangent. So. That's totally fine. Totally fine. But yeah, I didn't really identify with anybody. Okay, that's fair. And I think that's, I think that does speak to the narrative nature of that, of that game where it really is this kind of narrative that washes over you. And I think how you said, it puts you in a different place. It feels separate from where you are. I think that's a good thing. think that can be, you know, I think we're all looking for those connections, but I also do think that there are places in games and any artwork really. where you can just appreciate it as the work it is without saying, oh, I totally identify with Red 13. I don't identify with Red 13. I can't, I don't know. He's cool. He's cool. I mean, he's awesome. He's probably the most well-adjusted character in the whole thing. Yeah, most likely, yes. I'm not a Kate Sith on top of a giant moogle. I don't know. I've never... What is that? Is the cat the robot? Is the plushie the robot? never quite figured this out. don't know. know. I don't. just. I thought one was Kate and one was Sith for very long time. No. And I was like, why are they together? Like, what is going on? I just accept Kate Sith as an entity. And I just say, all right, it's fine. Don't question. I don't think too much about it, actually. I was actually very shocked when I found out the secret behind it. was like. Really? Okay, that's fantastic. Bizarre. Yeah, I just love, it's a story that I can hear over and over again. And I think that's, you know, attributing its success. It's, you how many times they tell the story, they bring it back. It's because people still love it and they want to experience it. So yeah, that's, I think that's how I felt about it. Obviously there's these huge moments in the game the game is nothing but these huge moments and actually just occurred to me We were talking about antagonists sephiroff as you go through the game He be you learn that he's really just a puppet in all this that he's yes He's really not the big bad if you want to put a title on big bag Hojo is really the the big the big bad Yeah, cuz he him and in his the The woman one of the other doctors who fell in love with hojo was having his baby and He wanted to put the sales of jenova into their kid and She didn't want that but you know, she ended up they ended up doing it anyway at some point in time and so That whole thing even when you get to the end Hojo is like he's really the antagonist of the game because all the stuff that he did even like he took he took clouds in Tifa's town and Like you guys are test subjects basically basically. Yes. Yes, like he moved his whole Equipment and stuff in that little house or and everything and this is it's crazy like when you go, when you read the lore about it, you'd like, my goodness. He did it all. He is not because he's a mad scientist. He did it because of science. wants to know he was so in into the research. Like this was his addiction and he couldn't help it. He wants to see what happens and what can he get out of It's classic like Bioshock, Science Without Morality. It's a very similar theme. And it's funny because when I remember playing through Final Fantasy VII, a lot of that gets lost in it. I watched for this interview series a chronological story retelling of Final Fantasy VII. The story of Final Fantasy VII, but chronologically. And when you watch it that way, it's really interesting because it's like, this is actually really cool and good. But that's when you realize, no, there's Hojo and Rufus and... all these other characters involved, but we always remember Cloud and Sephiroth, because that's what I think, then the marketing pushed them, and they were just so big, but there's so much intertwined in Final Fantasy VII that I think really bears itself out when you watch a chronological retelling as opposed to the story itself. me, the biggest thing with Final Fantasy VII is that you have these two huge characters. have your Cloud and your Sephiroth, and they kind of dominate everything. And when I'm like rewatching some of these, I'm not watching YouTube videos to refresh myself on the story. And I'm like, wait, there's a guy called Hojo who's like, wait, he's like, he's the main bad guy of this whole story. Like he's the main bad He's no joke. He's like Reanimate. He's like, he's like Reanimate. He's like no joke. mean, I forget Rufus was a thing and Rufus is a serious part of that whole story. But all of these other side characters and that shouldn't be considered side characters almost got overshadowed by Big Sword and shiny hair. And it was, it was a weird thing for Seven for me. was a good one because Yeah. The first encounter that you have with the Turks characters is Reno, who's the cocky go-getter, the young, feisty one. And then you have Rude, who talks only when absolutely necessary. I understand that, Rude. I get that. I get that a lot. I work in IT. I get that so hard. And then you have Sung, who's the commander of the Turks. Every scene of him in the original Final Fantasy 7, like when he appears, it's something about how they work the camera and the way that they animate his movements. You can tell that he is in command of the situation that he is in. The one exception being when he's clearly injured and just sitting at the front of the pyramid, like waiting for you. But that's also by design. So, you know, every other scene is him just walking in. and immediately just telling everybody what to do and then they have to go do it. Yeah, that's funny. That's interesting. What's your take on that, JJ? sorry. Go please continue. I was just gonna say like Song is definitely one of my favorite side characters and I'm glad he got more fleshed out in some of the compilation stuff too. Yeah. What about you, JJ? For me, just because of just how bombastic he is, I always liked Dio. Dio. Yeah. my gosh. Because Dio. He was just so much fun when he got to the Golden Saucer. Yeah, just having like a straight up over-muscled pro wrestler be like the guy who's in charge of everything. That was that was really fun. And he wears a cape and a speedo. Come on. I just looked up DioFF7. Don't look at the fan renders. Just skip by those pages. That's not worthwhile. Turn your search on. I didn't need that. So cool. Dio. That's a side of you I never recognized. So clicking off of that link. Dio. Gosh, I'm a Dio. just about does it for this edition of a gamer looks at 40 if there was a character that you felt did not get the love they deserved then you go you just do that you just provide that love you be the vessel of that appreciation or lack of appreciation by going over to my discord there should be a link to it in the show notes of this episode it's free to join up come on by make yourself known to the community and i'd love to hear what you have to say about your favorite character. We only have X amount of time and X amount of interviews to go through, so I would love to hear what you have to say about those characters that maybe didn't get as much exposure on this show as you would have liked. As always, many thanks to Pete, Harney and Kev for helping me cut up these interviews. This show does not exist without their hard work. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Many thanks to my patrons as always and many thanks to you my fine listeners for spending your valuable time listening to this podcast. truly appreciate every download, every click. I don't think I say it enough and if I do say it too much it's because I genuinely mean it. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. I genuinely, genuinely appreciate the ride we're going on. This has been episode 123 of A Gamer Looks At 40 and until next time. Just be kind to yourselves and each other.
